Morgan Nelson Marek 36 input and below deck stays.

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Cliff, Nov 24, 2009.

  1. Cliff
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Lake Erie Ohio

    Cliff Junior Member

    I am looking at a 1985 Morgan Nelson Marek 36. I am setting up a time to go see it and make an offer on it. Does anybody have any input on the boat and I have found it has diamond stays below deck. They attach at the Chain plates at just below the deck and go from there to the base of the mast. It means needing to step over the port side one everytime one would need to go forward of the mast like to the head, wet locker and the V berth. I have found a sister ship for sale which does not have these and instead has a soild piece of stainless bolted to the bulk head at the same angle but only on the starboard side. The stays do have turnbuckles on them and I assume they are there to support the rig but if they can not be removed it could be a deal breaker for my wife. I can just see her tripping over them already. So can I remove them and do something else?

    Thanks Cliff
     
  2. alan white
    Joined: Mar 2007
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    alan white Senior Member

    The stresses and loads could be analyzed and it's likely simple partial bulkheads, if properly designed, would replace the existing stays. Normally, this is the way it's done anyway, and the better way is to have a full bulkhead with an oval doorway. The rounded corners of the doorway reduce point loads. This setup, if bonded and tabbed in properly is amazingly stiff and strong and I would think it would be far superior to internal stays.
     
  3. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    I sailed quite a bit on a custom version of the same design (I am the good looking guy in the attached photo). I provided the rig and some custom deck gear. We won just about every major regatta we entered the first year or so.

    Our boat was masthead rigged, like the Morgans, and the hull is based on the fractional One Tonner RUSH that won the North Americans in 1980.

    The boat sailed really well in all conditions, especially in light air against some larger fractionally rigged IOR boats. We were definitely powered up sooner than they were. The boat will go upwind with anything in the size range.


    The "diamonds" you mention are called jock straps. Our custom boat did not have them. Sounds like someone is making an assumption there is no main bulkhead and giving useless advice based on that. I believe there is a main bulkhead, and it sounds like maybe the production boats migh have had that under-spec'd, so the jock strap was added.

    You might be able to sister the bulkhead where the chainplates are bolted, and vertically all the way down to the hull, glassing the re-inforcement in.


    Before doing any mods you might want to call Bruce Nelson and ask for direction. Google Nelson/Marek for his phone number in San Diego.
     

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  4. Cliff
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Lake Erie Ohio

    Cliff Junior Member

    Paul,

    Thanks for the info I am going to see if I can talk to Bruce later today and get his input on if I can remove the jock straps. There are other boats for sale and they do not have the jock straps and look like the same boats.

    Cliff
     
  5. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Hopefully Bruce can help you out.

    It could be the jock straps were an aftermarket performance enhancement. In the Olson 30 class the boats were originally delivered without the jock straps, but some owners have installed them in the ensuing years, some haven't. The jury is out as to whether they make any performance difference in most conditions. The O30s without jock straps certainly don't break, so it isn't a safety issue on those boats at all.


    Just some FYI: The molds for the Morgan 36 were bought by Catalina Yachts when Morgan went under. Catalina also bought the larger N/M 45 molds at the same time. The 45 molds were reworked to produce, I believe, the Catalina 43.

    The 36 molds were modified to de-IORize the stern, cut off some freeboard, and a flush deck was added to produce the Catalina 37 match racing boats. They are still used for the Ficker Cup and Congressional Cup.

    Of course prior to the Catalina 37 the Ficker Cup and Congressional Cups used the Catalina 38, whose molds were also acquired by Catalina when another builder went under. That hull had previously been the Yankee 38, based on the custom S&S One Tonner Lightnin' (once owned and sailed by Ted Turner).

    Old Frank Butler at Catalina Yachts was a pretty smart businessman.
     
  6. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    We have a customer with one and it does not have the jock strap,the bulkhead is just ahead of the mast and is a substantial full b/h with a oval opening to the forepeak on the stbd side as Alan described.There is nothing ahead of the b/h except a head and sail storage.Get a good survey.
    Steve.
     
  7. Cliff
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Lake Erie Ohio

    Cliff Junior Member

    Paul,

    I talked with one of the guys at N/M and that these stays were not in the orginal design and he could not advise weather to remove them or not. I was able to find 3 other boats for sale all N/M Morgan 36 and none of them have these stays but one does have some additional stainless going from the chainplates attached to the main bulk head. I also talked with my sailmaker who has sailed on 3 different N/M 36's and does not remember seeing anything like this on them. It appears that they are an aftermarket and I should be ok with removing them but will wait till I get a don't hold me to it word from N/M before I proceed with my offer.

    Thanks Cliff
     
  8. Cliff
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    Location: Lake Erie Ohio

    Cliff Junior Member

    Going to pass on the N/M 36 I talked to my insurance agent and he advised against buying it because he was pretty sure he could not insure it. Going to switch gears and buy another J 29. We loved our J 29 and have set up to go look at one in a few weeks.

    Thanks for you help Cliff
     
  9. bshambrook
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Chicago

    bshambrook New Member

    Morgan Nelson Marek Running backstays

    In discussing the boat with the owner of a Morgan Nelson Marek 36, the "R" version, he was very surprised that a boat I was looking at had tangs on the transom but no running back stays. I can find no picture of a 36 with running back stays. Does any member know whether that they were only used on the "R" version or would they be of value on the racer/cruiser version with the nicer interior, the smaller cock pit and larger cabin?
     
  10. Capdsn
    Joined: Jan 2011
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    Location: USA

    Capdsn New Member

    Nelson Marek 36 & 45 (Morgan) Main bulkhead "stays" / modifications

    The main bulkheads in both of these models was built with mis-interpreted readings of the N/M design plans.
    Typical N/M mast step designs of this time, were welded assemblies that had a solid top plate with vertical tangs, through bolted to the main bulkhead. A good, solid, proven method. Morgan read the plans as a solid mast step box and cut the main bulkhead (from the bottom of the walk thru to the hull) to accommodate it.
    Once the rig was loaded, the Mast Step / Hull was forced away from the main bulkhead which compromised the hull / main bulkhead tabbing.
    The factory response was to remove the old mast step, install a correctly manufactured one (with the vertical thru-bolt tabs). install the missing piece of the main bulkhead (at the foot of the walkthru cutout) and reglass the entire hull to main bulkhead tabbing, from the shear down.
    (Not all boats were repaired this way and other "options" were employed by owners to strengthen the area. ie. plates, jackstays, turnbuckles etc. All of these "racing versions" were under a very tight deadline for the SORC)
    To my knowledge, none of the properly repaired boats experienced any further problems.
    A word of note. do not confuse the "racing" versions of these boats to the cruising versions with full interiors. Proper mast steps were installed in these.
     

  11. jacks_or_aces58
    Joined: Jun 2011
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    Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada

    jacks_or_aces58 New Member

    Stays removed

    I just wanted to let you know that I have removed the stays on my Morgan Nelson/Marek 36 after I sailed her from Toronto to Thunder Bay. They have been off for awhile and I have gone through one storm without any problem. I think they were put on by a previous owner who might have thought they were needed. I believe this is also the boat referred to in earlier posts as it was called "After Shock". She now has a new spot to sail on the great lake called Superior, were she will be tested.
     
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