Modify a soling or Etchells 22 to include a wheel?

I can see why Folkboat is so popular, and anyone interested enough to read this thread should take a look at the link to the French boat. very nice.

OK - Here goes again; this time a photochopped former Soling (now with a wheel). Try to imagine it has a nice deep bulb keel keeping it on its lines,..., this is proposed to be a project boat starting with an old Soling (list as low as $2K) that was to be cut up and scrapped anyway and must also include for other required maintenance and restoration work but the intention is to keep it all under 15K. Click on image to make it a little larger.

Admittedly, that same money can do a lot of other things in the used boat market as pointed out above. feel free to be as critical as you would if you actually saw it drifting by on this beautiful morning!

thanks to everyone for the constructive comments and information.

 

Edgewater,

My only real complaint is that the bozo has his fender still over the side!! Geesh!! One of the MOST IMPORTANT things about being an old fart sailor like me sailing around in these beautiful old boats is to LOOK GOOD and having your RSS (rubber-racing-stripes) hanging over the side does NOT look good.

I've said my piece about wheels before. Get a tiller!

Beau

 

Happens to the best of them.

 

It's hard to imagine the photochop Soling hard on the wind but I think it would be something like this,...

 

A beauty with a steering wheel

Edge water,

If you really want what you asked for in the first place take another look at
Catherine. A custom wooden yacht build by Corby they have fantastic photo series where you can see her majestically gliding in the waters of Cowes. http://gallery.mac.com/jcboats#100088&bgcolor=black&view=grid


If you want that you can have that. And I know what you said about the cabin but is it that bad to a sheltered place on board where you can make coffee for you and your guest? And as earlier explained it is the buoyancy compartment that prevents the ship from sinking.

You certainly pulled out to see a lot of beautiful designs with your thread.

Congratulations

 

I had trouble with link above but could open the Corby 39 from previous link above. I have no criticism of the boat and would be more than happy with it as shown but I think you may be more confident in my means than I am myself! The MD is postal abbreviation for Maryland, the state I live; not Medical Doctor unfortunately.

Otherwise, I don't have a real problem with a cabin. I saw an Etchells modified to include very low cabin. Not bad really. But I owned a pocketcruiser for years. It had compromised sail-ability to get a little house down below. It was a pudgy little guy with strong tendency to round up on a puff.

I would take guests out, and it was a shame that on such a large boat - the cockpit was so so small. It wasn't an extra appendage - it was 85% of the boat. The 15% I actually used was pretty badly compromised.

I recognize that I don't need a cabin for little daysails and it's a bit more exotic not to have one.

Unusual in my area, an A-scow went by the other day. The boat's not right for me at all but I am impressed by its purity of purpose, a 38' planing dinghy with way way too much kevlar sails.

I suppose that if I had means to get the Corby, I could have one with less cabin and manage to keep its style.

But what do you think of wheel under a low boom vs wheel behind end of boom. Besides head room, it's really about attitude somehow I think.

I've considered starting other thread about my 'Frankenstein' trimaran concept. To be built from (3) beachcat hulls (those things can be incredibly light these days) and a Nacra 20 rig which includes self-tack jib and huge asymmetric spinnaker that raises/lowers with one string, sheets like a jib. All easily found at reasonable price. All up weight less than 500 pounds (US) for 20'x16' trimaran (not counting the fixed bowsprit).

Now the stinker of a compromise - instead of using that massive leverage, there's a very modest steering platform at the very tip end of the center hull's stern, with wheel of course. It would be better to have a little steering platform at end of each hull for maximum altitude and visibility but you really shouldn't let go of the tiller when tacking,...

I guess the concept is sort of a WaterWorld thing, though I (do note that the mariner steered from the ama's with a tiller of sorts. Plenty of technical problems with this idea, but nothing that can't be overcome and actually involves not so much fabrication.

 

Don't do it

I just came across this thread and I am hopping up and down at the computer.

Don't do it!

Wheels are not fitted to Dragons (you can't bastardize a Dragon) and Solings (lovely boats) for a reason.

You are tied to one spot with a small wheel such as shown. With a nice tiller extension you will be able to move forward to grab a jib sheet, tweak a downhaul or somesuch. You will also be able to get your bum close to the side and feel the boat, watch the bow cut through the waves. see the curve of the mast and the set of the jib.

Down the back you will be a loner, having an awfully hard time of getting forward to do any trimming. An imperious looking helmsman who can't trim the boat and never get it really .......sailing!

I had a 31footer I converted to tiller from a wheel and it was much better. Eventually you need to go a wheel. My 38ft cat has just got converted to a wheel from a tiller and it is better so I am a convert of neither one especially but not for a small, delightful sailers like the boats you propose.

Tillers are fab until the loads get too big. These lovely boats require a sensitive helm and will reward you with brilliant sensations - it will be like listening to the symphony with cotton wool in your ears if you deaden the helm with a wheel.

Try the tiller first - learn how to use one well and learn to listen to the boat through it. Once you do you will not want the wheel.

cheers

Phil

 

I think that's part of 'it'.

Remember WaterWorld - the boat just eating up (nautical) miles at the end of a sunny Pacific day; then they zoom in, in, in - there's Mariner standing on the spreaders thinking things over. He's serious. The old photo (above) of imperial helmsman (Nicholson); similar thing - he's not in control of all the lines,etc., of all that power, and he is. The zen-like duality of running the whole show, and not moving a muscle. kind of like dressage, but with boats.

Otherwise, it goes without saying that all lines have to be led aft and heaven help a tangle at the wrong time/place.

PS - I agree about value of balance boat and being aware of helm. is it really not possible to provide feedback thru a wheel? I've been in denial of that being an un-solvable problem.

 

and seeing the jib's telltales. definitely compromised but (currently and past) I'll steer from the low side to leave honored guest settle in and enjoy the ride. Not ideal but doesn't really seem like such a big deal either.

I looked at Soling's deck in plan view. Combination of tapering stern and aft position would reduce visibility of jib and spinnaker (arrangements for spin of some sort must be made) but sitting on that bit of rail on one side or other of a wheel would probably still be the preferred sailing position other than stretching legs a bit. As it is, I like to stand while going downwind (using tiller extension) and can go fwd to push boom out in light stuff, but sit out as far as possible to watch jib telltales while going uphill.

In context of classic/graceful/athletic boats the pic may not help my case, but here's a well known and popular 26' boat. Not a fan myself, but i have noted that the one up the river from me is probably the most used sailboat in this bit of water.

 

In Sailing Anarchy http://www.sailinganarchy.com/index_page1.php

The Mac Gregor 26 was crushed until a point that it was forbidden by the moderator Ed to write any further about it. But SA is improving and even they get more friendly.

 

To each, his own,...

Where to begin? As I said, I'm not a fan of pocketcruisers for daysailing but for someone else, that might be perfect. And if it was just for a place to keep pet cats while out for the day's sailing, more power to to him; especially in light of the adversity to be encountered from the powerboats, professional watermen, yachts under power and racers sitting at the bar.

The McG'r up the river that's so well used has almost become my hero when I see all the more stylish boats resting in their slips year in year out. Unlike my proposition, I think the wheel is actually justified on that boat in view of hi-speed motoring that it is capable of. Somehow, it sails with degraded view of jib telltales and assumably poor feel of helm. As you've pointed out, McG'r has endured much criticism, and prospered.

But for the courage to do their own thing, I'll nominate this guy and gal http://members.aon.at/trimaran/Fotogalerie.htm

the pics are of his "Soling". Better quality pics at his site along with some interesting content.

Based on comments I've received and their integration into my concept, mine should have deep bulb keel (note JS9000), inner console floor above WL to take care of sinking problems noted, teak decking per Brenta, open transom per JS9000 to allow waves to wash out, again noting sinking problem, disengageble wheel/engageable tiller to switch modes from multiple users to imperialist singlehanding. arrangement must be made for leading and unleading lines back to control area at wheel (note JS9000 cockpit for example). Noting, McG'r's very small wheel, it needs a Large wheel - 3'+ Dia potentially requiring a divot into the console decking,...

Thanks again everyone!

 

Just looking at the ideas you've been kicking about: I think the obvious has been overlooked!
Instead of arsing about with huge "modern" wheelstands and the likes, what about going back to the roots and fitting a rack-and-pinion steerer or even a modified skiboat steering like the trusty rusty old D290 from Morse, with a little, beautifully crafted. spoked wheel which will look after itself, having very little feedback, or even a hydraulic system with no lock-valve?
That way nobody puts their pip in the flight-path of the boom, and the lines of the boat in flight is still unchanged- no wallahs standing up like bus-conductors!
The idea of wrestling with a helm is fine for racing, but snuggling up with good company on one side and a sedentary wheel on the other, the latter offering no distraction from the former save a little coaxing now and again [now which was being coaxed again??] takes a whole lot of beating.
I'd say that taking a T&A boat with long overhangs and sexy lines and messing with the mojo so that you can have a quazi-sportsboat is a punishable offense. Rather sing along with the music and turn a fast, pretty boat into something more stately- clever systems and well-conceived ergonomics will make a square-metre-boat or a hobble-horse like a Soling into an absolute angel! I've sailed 30sqm's a few times, and a Soling twice, and neither of them was a beast, sailed properly. The secret to going fast is sail-trim, at least on the 30, because they're so narrow you can't hike them!
If you want to chuck the crew away, you have to make the weight-gain useful. Although T&A boats are usually canoes, and you can't hike them, there's nothing to stop you from fitting water-ballast, for instance, and leave the keel well alone. Slapping a few lumps of lead on the bottom is stupid- adding lead= leaving coolboxes behind on the dock! Fit a self-tacker and move the sailplan around accordingly, and also get a stemhead Asym if you absolutely HAVE to- NO POLES OR 'SPRITS! EVER! PLEASE?
I think you've got a lovely idea up you sleeve, but arsing about with ballast and fitting a standup wheel is like fitting mags to a Rolls!

 

no idea is being tossed out. i've thought about the water ballast and like the idea of its 'reversibility' but wonder how effective it would really be, especially in a narrow boat. but that's ok because i think its effectiveness can be calculated.

a plan might be to purchase the starter boat, do refurbishing needed to get it going again and better contemplate changes while enjoying and learning the boat. my experience has been that new sails are delicious. nothing like a sail that cuts through gusts like a steak-knife providing acceleration instead of excess heeling and loss of control. it's really such a shame to their own enjoyment that people use old rags so much.

to add floor - cut enlarged cockpit opening. build removably-attached framing to define a deck above WL and sides to connect the deck to topside all around. attach hi-density foam sheets to framing. glass over the foam. after setting, remove foam/framing and glass assembly. then glass the 'other' side and re-install the assembly. since deck will get 1/4" teak, only quality finish on sides will be critical. needs scuppers or open transom to be self-bailing.

maybe it's the windsurf background? but standing and sailing is appealing to me. as regards a practical embodiment of wheel - i'm inclined to arrange the downwardly-extending shaft of wheel parallel to (and behind) the rudder axis, provide each with a gear radius-sized to provide feedback, one of the gears being capable of being disengaged from its shaft and slid to be out of engagement with the other. the rudder axis would be exposed in the enlarged cockpit whereby attaching a tiller to it would be simple. that would provide for conventional sailing and access to tangles. could have the entire wheel and its support assembly added after the other changes to cockpit/console are completed. and it would be removable as well. this incorporates the 'don't do it' sentiment to a large degree.

messing with keel - that is a big scarey mess for sure. not previously discussed, but being able to self-launch from trailer and store would be very handy. copy from the Melges 24 is the initial idea there. certainly need a beefy arrangement fabricated in the hull to handle the raisable keel. some engineering and time for that, but to offset - might be able to purchase an M24 lead bulb (or other) from factory. this arrangement should be perfected before starting into the deck plan laid out above.

sprit and spin - i wonder if there's room for the spin to get air w/o a sprit and a movable sprit adds complication to a single hander. changing concept from singlehander back to a 2 or 3 person keelboat does make changes more unnecessary. and doesn't need coolerboxes - it's a singlehander going out for a couple rare hours.

ps - out on the web is pic of a soling modified to include 'wings' (benchlike seats mounted outside of hull). that addresses light crew to a large extent but is not compatible with wheel of course. but might as well add trapeze wire or two as long as its not technically a 'Soling' anymore anyway. trapeze and wing adds much to ability to hold boat up (or down as you see things) and is not very expensive.

 

What ever you do, I hope it works.
I quote you because I like this one very much.
I hope it will be never a perfect version, what a bore it will be.
You have as many boat as many people's dream, nobody's right, nobody's wrong, as long nobody end up on the bottom of the sea!
Personaly I prefer the tiller.
That's my two cents