Modern Pirates

[Wavewacker]

Well, good stuff PAR, I agree, however the only reason I'm armed is because they are, so in that, kill them all and let God sort them out. You can see that trend in law enforcement today.

 

[hoytedow]

Great stuff from PAR, who is probably being cursed as a "liberal" by a few here. It is funny how that term is almost a perjorative in the USA, but virtually a compliment elsewhere.

The term "liberal" has been corrupted by people who are anything but. It is one of many terms whose basic meaning has been mutated;defiled;subverted for nefarious ends.

 

[Mikthestik]

My chosen mastermind subject would be History, though it would be ancient history rather than American. I think Par and others may have misses what I was trying to say. I said crew the boat with police, (law enforcement types), make sure the people you are going to hit are pirates. I hate the idea of innocent people being robbed and murdered.
In the UK it is illegal for us to attack a man who has broken into our houses to rob us. Makes me wish I was American sometimes.
Finally 1n the 16th 17th century piracy was a problem which the British stamped out. Probably because it was costing them to much money. In the big scheeme of things piracy maybe doesn't cost developed countries much money, Individual insurers could be a different story. I suppose I am advocating making war on pirates. mik.

 

[PAR]

I understood you correctly Mik. Crap happens, even to good people and nothing can prevent this, though you can offer some retorts, these usually rob some personal freedoms as a result.

Currently, ships are being manned by professional anti-pirate teams. The British didn't stamp out piracy, so much as kill, impress or made it less viable to continue as a pirate in that particular area. The trade continued, just around the fringes of the empire's influence, to avoid trouble.

Gun laws in the USA come with a damnation of other issues. Look at the number of gun violence occurrences in your country last year and compare them with the USA. We're not a bunch of homicidal maniacs that the statistics show, but the moment you introduce guns into the mix, the odds of being involved in a gun incident, rise exponentially. This particular aspect of USA's society will eventually change, but it's likely some nut job will have to run into congress with an AK and mow down a few key senators, before any real legislation is passed (it's happened before).

Other countries around the world have the same mental health problems as the United States, play the same video games, but manage to avoid absurdly high gun murder rates and frequent shooting massacres. If you add up the populations of France, Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark and Australia, you have about the same as the USA. In 2012 (the last year I could find info for all of them) the USA had 34,000+ gun deaths and the combined nations list above, had less than 150. Is it that we are just a murderous bunch of rabble, or is it the simple fact that all of the countries listed, have strict gun control laws.

Lastly, as history has repeatedly proven, you can't sucessful make war on a concept, idea or belief. Without due process, how do you insure the fishing boat that is provocatively approaching, is a pirate or simply some boneheads, not realizing they're crossed an imaginary line. Having a skipper make a snap decision as the closing rate continous, isn't due process and is fraught with potential mistakes. Yeah, you'd get some bad guys, but you'd also get some innocents, which is the basic crux of this type of preemptive behaviour and why rule of law works, if a bit ponderous at times.

 

[gonzo]

PAR: the UK alone had more than 150 deaths by gun. Throwing number around to prove your point is not a good policy. I expect better from you. Also, in the USA the large majority of deaths and injuries by guns are confined to a very small group. Deaths by car are a lot more prevalent. Violence on the road is the main cause of death for people under 40. However, it is more politically correct and easy to blame guns for the decision people make to be violent. I have been in heated arguments, and never resorted to pulling out a gun and shooting the person I disagree with. Blame the violent criminals.

 

[Mr Efficiency]

PAR: the UK alone had more than 150 deaths by gun. Throwing number around to prove your point is not a good policy. I expect better from you. Also, in the USA the large majority of deaths and injuries by guns are confined to a very small group. Deaths by car are a lot more prevalent. Violence on the road is the main cause of death for people under 40. However, it is more politically correct and easy to blame guns for the decision people make to be violent. I have been in heated arguments, and never resorted to pulling out a gun and shooting the person I disagree with. Blame the violent criminals.

All that says, is that hot-heads should not have access to guns in general, and hand-guns in particular. Young, stupid, impulsive + a gun near at hand = trouble.

 

[gonzo]

Hot heads on the roads are causing deaths and injuries on a daily basis. However, there isn't a movement to ban cars or to do background checks before buying a car. Instead, they increase safety measures in cars. For example, safety belts, airbags, side impact , etc. If the same standards were applied to guns, we should have to walk around with bullet-proof vests and helmets. The deaths and injuries by gunshot would decline sharply. That would make cars, by comparison, even more dangerous than guns that they are today.

 

[Mr Efficiency]

Few road accidents are deliberate acts, shootings almost always are.

 

[rwatson]

Few road accidents are deliberate acts, shootings almost always are.

Good point.

Also, cars get you to Supermarkets, Work, School, and Holidays.

Guns only do one thing, and often not in the way the owner planned.

 

[PAR]

I may have gotten the year wrong, but you can look it up if you like. There's decidedly no denying the fact that among the advanced societies of the world, the USA is way behind in this regard. Gun deaths in the USA rival automotive deaths. Some level of accepted responsibility has to be assumed on this subject and the grotesque misrepresentation of the 2nd isn't helping. There's absolutely no need for an unregulated, armed society in the 21st century. The government isn't going to call up any civilian "militia" and sensible constraints will take place, it's just a matter of time.

Quite correct. The moment you raise the sights of a gun on someone, the idea of "unintentional" goes out the window. The only question at this point is frame of mind and if you're pointing a gun at someone, rational thought is likely long gone. In fact, this is assumed under the law, except with certain trained individuals (military, police, etc.)

As far as standards, protecting one from the results of a shooting, is like putting air bags on bridge pillars and guard rails. This isn't even a reasonable counterpoint to the discussion, as reasonable measures can and have been previously taken. We've long had lot number markers on explosives in the USA and this is an easy application that could be adopted in firearms, without imposing anything on the gun owner. Micro printing on casings and host of other things can be done, with minimal impact. I have 7 guns in my home and wouldn't have issue with any of the reasonable and sensible controls currently suggested. The idea of this being a right, needs to be changed to a privilege, just like a driver license and the appropriate measures taken, to insure you can drive the gun as well as the car, so to speak.

 

[gonzo]

You should read the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting. It shows that you are wrong in your numbers. Also, there is 32 times the deaths by gun. Violent people operating vehicles are, as the numbers show, much more dangerous than those with guns; including criminals. Gun deaths do not rival automotive deaths, even though imposed safety measures on automobiles far exceed those on guns. I respect your right to an opinion, but not to make up numbers.

 

[SukiSolo]

I believe we have pretty tight gun ownership laws here in the UK after a few rogue incidents. Most of the gun related deaths are from illegal firearms, indeed I understand if you know where to go in London it could take no more than 30 minutes to purchase such a weapon. It would be prudent for the US imho to significantly lower the number of firearms. Trouble is, and this is looking from outside of course, there seems to be quite a powerful lobby in the RA? I just don't see that there is liklihood of being attacked by wild bears in mid Houston, of New Orleans. Wall Street maybe but financial bears...

Actually concerning road deaths, here in the UK approx 9 a day. One cause is also suicide but it is hard with a single vehicle accident to prove. So more incidents of road death are deliberate than may be recorded. My understanding was that suicide was the biggest or second biggest killer of young men in western society.

Thanks Gonzo, my mistake, your Declaration of Independence is quite a well drafted document. As we don't have a UK constitution, and no legal rights at all without the European Convention and that may be recinded by the end of the month....

Regarding pirates, surely all the US has to do is release D T....

 

[hoytedow]

You should read the FBI Uniform Crime Reporting. It shows that you are wrong in your numbers. Also, there is 32 times the deaths by gun. Violent people operating vehicles are, as the numbers show, much more dangerous than those with guns; including criminals. Gun deaths do not rival automotive deaths, even though imposed safety measures on automobiles far exceed those on guns. I respect your right to an opinion, but not to make up numbers.

Agreed. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2013/04/02/guns_save_lives_117747.html

 

[PAR]

Maybe you don't get it, but gun violence in the USA is literally horrific.

So many people die annually from gunfire in the US that the death toll between 1968 and 2015 surpass all wars ever fought by our country. 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to the present day wars.

Murders in the USA in 2012, 60% were by firearm compared with about 30% in Canada, 18% in Australia, and just 10% in the UK. Last year there were 372 mass shootings in the US and 64 school shootings. Yeah, we don't have anything to worry about.

I think the percentage of violent people intentionally causing auto incidents, will pale in comparison to what violent folks with a gun produce.

 

[gonzo]

That graph does no agree with any of the reliable data available. It is in direct contradiction with the FBI report. Also, murder is an act of violence regardless of what tool is used to commit it. Why are many of you so hung up on guns, but indifferent to murders by car. They outnumber deaths by gun 32 to 1. I see violent behavior on the road every day. However, excepting a few cases, when there is a crash people refer to it as an accident. Let's call them what they are: acts of violence. The problem are acts of violence, not guns or cars or machetes.