Minuet Yachts: a 2m fun boat-can the design be improved?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Look at the Minuet dimensions-it's actually quite a wide boat for its length.
    Decide if you want to stay at about the same length or go longer. If you go longer with the same displacement hull shape you may need extra ballast. Keep in mind that the Minuet is for sheltered waters and would be a wet boat and could get knocked down and fill with water-not necessarily a big deal in warm water....You might want to get a book on boat design-like the latest edition of Skenes Elements of Yacht Design where you could learn to calculate displacement, righting moment etc. If you don't want to study, at this size-6-7'-you could just build something with sections similar to the Minuet-though you may have to do it a couple of times or try the thing in the water before you epoxy glass the outside and then shave a bit until it floats right. Approximate Center of buoyancy should be about 53-54% of the waterline length aft.
    Good luck and have fun! Keep us abreast of what you decide to do.
     
  2. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I think you will find you will need quite a bit more Beam. The model shown looks like a deep keel plank-on-edge, which uses pendular stability. Most sailboats use buoyancy shift stability, where the athwart ship Center of Buoyancy shifts to leeward (the down wind side) as the boat heels. To get this, the hull form needs to be reasonably wide for its depth.

    Since the human body is programed to keep itself always upright, surprisingly narrow boats can be made to work, as long as the human body in question sits or stands on some part of the boat, below its meta center height. The further below its meta center height the human body sits or stands, the greater the range of stability the boat is going to have (providing there is adequate free board along the sides). And the Meta Center Height increases with the cube of the aggregate Waterline Half Beam.

    This aggregate Waterline Half Beam can be increased by one of two ways: By increasing the maximum waterline Beam, or by carrying the maximum waterline Beam further along the length of the boat. Here's an example: (see attachments)

    This boat has only a 3ft beam, but this Beam is carried along the entire length of the hull. Notice how wide the hull section is compared to its depth. Here it is a six to one ratio. With a 'V' or round bottom section, I could probably go deeper, but I would have to set my center of gravity deeper as well.
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    small keelboat

    I still think the Minuet is a great little boat-and I think it would be possible to improve the design just for the fun of it. A little boat like this(maybe 2-3' longer) with an asy spin or the Hoyt-Lord spinnaker system(post 19--first used successfully on rc models) would be a blast.
     
  4. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I agree they are fun and honestly isn't that all a little sailboat can be expected to do?

    About purpose and design, I have a couple of ideas

    1. The 'minimum standard adventure racer' MSTAR -hull 10ft kayak rotomolded or thermoformed. The sail rig is ~14sf gybing Genoa that can be raised or lowered in seconds. The boat is paddled as a kayak in low or dangerous winds. The seat reclines and leans comfortably.

    The idea is to offer a very capable boat that requires the absolute least resources -least cost $500, least water depth 4" float 10" to sail, least air draft 5', <50lb all up, least experience... But the most fun in any conditions. On the webb one owner challenges another with a proposed race course day and time. Smart phones track time and position to share the result.

    2. The 'classic woody' -CNC stich & glue marine ply hull looks like a classic above the waterline (personally I would like a J boat with a Gaff rig) carbon fiber mast and a lifting high aspect keel with lead bulb. 12 to 16 ft can carry two tandem but is optimal for one.

    The idea of this design is a boat that is as beautiful to watch as it is to sail. These small sailboats are fun and affordable. The reason more people don't sail them is it looks like they are playing with toys. This design addresses that with beauty -they are putting a smile on the face of everyone that sees them. Perfect for those places with lots of big expensive homes on relatively small bodies of water with power, wake and noise restrictions. Opportunity to be "the guy with that pretty little sailboat" to the neighbors. Better yet, two guys get a pair and grab a drink and match race evenings after work.
     
  5. MoeJoe
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    MoeJoe Junior Member

    Sorry if this link is posted already, but I couldn't find it in the thread. Seems to be the designer/constructor who talks about the Minuet:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3QE01xWrAQ

    "Daggerboard is weighted"
    "Joystick control"
    "R/C type sail cloth"
    "It's all about enjoyment"

    For its intented purpose, I can't see much to improve. Looking like a bigger yacht from some distance is a lot of the fun/appeal. It's a toy basically, nothing wrong with that.

    I'd love to own one. Or even better, for my sailing club to have 4 of them.. :cool:
     
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  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Minuet

    ----------------------
    Great post and video! Thanks......
     
  7. smilicus
    Joined: Aug 2010
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    smilicus Junior Member

    Anyone any idee where one can find plans for the Minuet or similar boat that you can build in ply??
     
  8. tdem
    Joined: Oct 2013
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    tdem Senior Member

    Not sure how to get plans, but Bolger has a design called the Queen Mab. There are free plans available by Christer Byström for two similar boats. All of these are quite different in design to the Minuet and don't have a cabin. But no reason you couldn't do a bit of a redesign.

    Queen Mab http://earwigoagin.blogspot.co.nz/2013/08/micro-dinghy-queen-mab-catboat.html

    Stella http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/stella.htm

    Grace http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/grace.htm

    Stella, Grace and more plans http://web.comhem.se/chby/segling/design.htm

    -Thomas
     
  9. SukiSolo
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    SukiSolo Senior Member

    Although I did not witness it, my Club had a couple of Minuet loaned for a season. Apparently they proved a bit twitchy mainly because of length ie too short. Also, the winds tend to be very gusty as opposed to strong and this made them quite hard to sail even for experienced sailors.

    My gut feel from that feedback if designing along those lines, would be to up the length and extend the distance from keel/daggerboard to rudder.

    I tried to track down if they were still being made but no joy so far.
     
  10. rcnesneg
    Joined: Sep 2013
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    I've got one in the works, I designed it on the computer based on pictures of the Minuet. This one is 8 feet long. The cardboard frame is all finished, it just needs to be fiberglassed and painted. The picture is an old one, before the outer shell was made. The foils and rudder need to be made as well. It uses an unstayed rig, as opposed to the shrouds on the real minuet.
    [​IMG]
     
  11. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Minuet

    Great project-Good Luck!
     
  12. rcnesneg
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    Location: Utah

    rcnesneg Senior Member

    Thank you! The cardboard core is complete, I just need to do some filling work on a few cracks and fiberglass it, hopefully this fall.
     
  13. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    I've resumed work now that my $$$ and time stash has replenished itself somewhat.

    [​IMG]
     
  14. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    First layup complete! [​IMG]
     

  15. rcnesneg
    Joined: Sep 2013
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    A little gem of information from another thread, answering the question of whether it can be improved...

    -In reference to the minuet yachts:
     
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