Minuet Yachts: a 2m fun boat-can the design be improved?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Dec 13, 2011.

  1. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    Hopefully this will put up a Lines plan from Freeship, it's not an exact copy of the hull as it will be, but not far off.
    Blue Moon 15_Linesplan.jpg
     
  2. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    A very interesting hull shape.

    Apparently Beam was restricted with this class, as the max Beam is extended much of the length of the hull. The reverse transom flair seems quite modern, like IOR.
     
  3. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    That's one big minuet! How many people can it carry? How many sq. ft of sail area?
     
  4. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    Rcnesneg,
    She's just (will be when I finish cutting out the middle) under 16ft long and 4ft wide and can carry 2 sitting for and aft as you do in your Minuet. Sail area is not yet finalized But there will be a small jib, maybe 35sq ft, and a unreefed main of just under 200sq ft. There will definitely be provision for considerable reefing, probably 3 reefs.

    Sharpii2

    This is my own design,

    The Parallel sides were because I knew there was a chance I would have shorten her from 18ft to about 16ft, this is now in progress.
    The max beam was carried forward because with such a forward mast I didn't want to drive the bows under.
    The max beam was taken aft Because of my weight, She was designed as a single hander but with provision to take SWMBO out sitting just behind the mast. I didn't want the different crew weights making a huge difference to the balance and dragging the stern.

    The retrussee stern was to stop me collecting things in the aft compartment, also it's just wasted hull weight to have a conventional stern and I happen to like the reverse transom!. It's also why the bow is vertical, we tack close to hard banks, (see the video above) and no overhang means more use of the river width.
    With 20/20 hindsight she would have had a fixed under stern rudder not one that is drawn up though a box in the stern compartment. This would have allowed the top of the stern to be another foot forward. It is rare to get waves over 2ft where I sail and definitely not from behind.

    She will be raced in a Allcomers class which is for boats up to 17.5ft, If you don't have a handicap, the club handicapper will give you one, Luckily the last class I raced in I was normally in the top 3, winning occasionally, so if he's too hard on the handicap, I can prove it should be changed.

    Finally I am a total amateur at boat design, I designed her 19 years ago and built her in Saudi Arabia over the next 4 years , We had no internet then and I had no books to guide me, only 25 years of experience in sailing in the waters for which I designed her. There would have been more curvature to the Max hull for and aft If I built her now.
    This is probably the only Chance I had to build a boat of my own design.
     
  5. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

  6. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    Code Zero works great!

    Took her out one last time for the season today! Feb. 7 - Nov. 14 is not a bad season in Utah!

    The Code Zero is very good! I can almost keep up with a sunfish some of the time in very light winds. Other times, they just pull away.
    She has just a touch of lee helm vertical, but when heeled a bit (10 degrees) you can't feel it.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I also filmed a pulldown test, with the keel fully down and half down. She rights just as fast either way. Less than one second from release and she's level.

    [​IMG]
     
  7. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

  8. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Great!
     
  9. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

  10. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    Updates and new design!

    More sailing pictures. I've had 4 other people try it(all experienced sailors) and they always have a massive grin plastered on their faces.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    And... What?
    https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13346173_1187986311239909_7666689942436612234_o.jpg



    Also, I'm working on polishing the design and have a few ideas:

    Cordless drill inboard? I'm thinking a 1/4th inch shaft with a small prop mounted like a diesel inboard.

    Lifting Bulb Keel (can't retract out the top of the boat)

    Plumb bow

    Spade rudder instead of the transom hung rudder, not sure how this would work with the keel and draft issues.

    I would also like to figure out something better than cartopping the boat, possibly a small trailer or easy way to scoot it into a pickup truck bed.

    Thoughts?
     
  11. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I would not sacrifice any of the features that make the boat so easy to get from garage to on the water -the lift out dagger and transom hung rudder. I don't see any significant benefit for the complication. You know the dagger and rudder could be much smaller -for the minor performance increase.

    Longer waterline would be great.

    Auxiliary power would be a nice touch -a sculling oar might do.

    I still think the big fun begins when you have two of these cool little keel boats that can match race in little more than a puddle.

    On another forum I was talking about using high strength cement to make a keel boat (cement below the waterline, wood or composit above). My assertion was that the method could be used to make classic pre-war designs very efficiently. Any interest in doing a proof of concept boat?
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2016
  12. rcnesneg
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    rcnesneg Senior Member

    I don't think I really want to go that route right now. I would rather make a nice mold and start making some out of fiberglass, or try one using Cedar Strip or SOF.

    You bring up a very good point about being easy to get on/off the water. Maybe I need to work on simplifying it, and reducing the amount of assembly required. The other thing I really want to do is reduce weight. There's no reason why the hull of an 8 foot boat needs to weigh 60 lbs like this one does, I should be able to get it down to 40 lbs.
     
  13. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I think that is the right direction. 40lbs is a good target for handling to the water and on to the car top. The next hull could be a nice cedar strip. Or you could just make a plug out of foam, pull a mold, and then crank out fiberglass boats. You could use crowdfunding to pre-sell the hulls. A real production process would be vacuum thermoform.

    I don't see much value in skin on frame for the hull, but I do think the boat could be flat decked and have the coach roof be fabric so it could collapse to a nice flat (possibly soft) surface for car-topping. The soft coachroof would also allow some differentiation -maybe a full enclosure for cruising.

    One more wild idea -have you considered ballast shifting or canting keel?
     
  14. The Q
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    The Q Senior Member

    My thoughts...

    Cordless drill inboard? I'm thinking a 1/4th inch shaft with a small prop mounted like a diesel inboard.
    How are you going to cope with water leaking down the shaft? I don't think they make stern glands that small!! But I like the Idea...

    Lifting Bulb Keel (can't retract out the top of the boat),
    I have no problem with this, you just lift the boat off the keel and with your boat that you will just need two people, not a crane, or just leave it in place and lift the whole boat out of the water onto a trailer.

    Plumb bow,
    Well, thats what I've done, more water line length, more speed. Every lttle counts...

    Spade rudder instead of the transom hung rudder, not sure how this would work with the keel and draft issues.
    My boat has a rudder box, an oblong box, through which the rudder drops, with a tight fitting unit at the top of the shaft that fits inside the rudder box stopping it drop through, quite a common arangement where I sail.
    For shallow waters and still sailing you need a triangular box to keep steering with a lifted rudder.

    I would also like to figure out something better than cartopping the boat, possibly a small trailer or easy way to scoot it into a pickup truck bed.
    I moulded two fibreglass curves to fit the underside of the hull, one a couple of feet forward of the keel, the other a couple of feet aft of the keel. These were then glassed to a couple of 4X 2 beams and bolted to the floor of a trolley which then gets pushed up ramps onto a trailer. Then a support was mounted on the A frame of the trailer to support the bow.
     

  15. Skyak
    Joined: Jul 2012
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    Skyak Senior Member

    I would love to see pictures of your boat and rack.
     
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