Minimum Passagemaker/Cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mydauphin, Sep 29, 2010.

?

What is minimum that you can handle?

Poll closed Oct 29, 2010.
  1. I can only live in a proper yacht

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  2. Need: Size between 40 and 50 feet

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  3. Need: Size between 30 and 40 feet

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Need: Size smaller than 30 feet ok

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  5. Need: Power

    22 vote(s)
    66.7%
  6. Need: Sail

    19 vote(s)
    57.6%
  7. Need: Single Engine

    24 vote(s)
    72.7%
  8. Need: Twin Engine

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  9. Need: Head and holding tank

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
  10. Need: Air conditioner and Generator

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  11. Need: Watermaker

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  12. I don't care if interior looks like my garage

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  13. Need: DC Power Only

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  14. Need: Carpeting

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  15. Need: Wood floors

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  16. Need: Satellite TV

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  17. Need: Internet

    13 vote(s)
    39.4%
  18. Need: Hot Water Shower

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  19. Need: Manual Bilge pumps

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  20. Need: Propane Stove

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  21. Need: Freezer

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  22. Need: A boat that won't shame me at the marina.

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  23. Need: Windlass

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  24. Need: Dingy

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Of course not Mat.

    I did not even think about a used boat, maybe my mistake. You see, we are all victims of our own "expertise". My world is building new, so everything is about that, as long as not stated different explicite.

    To the size.
    A boat below 50ft is definetively not acceptable, even when the standards are rather basic and not what you or me would call appropriate. Length, displacement, acceleration, speed, all are not only higher or lower values on the list, all are safety factors also. The average sailor (on a sailing boat) underestimates the physical strain one encounters on small motorboats. That leads to fatigue, one of our bigger enemies at sea.

    Often overlooked, are bunkers and provisions. Ocean passages can take a while, and often they do not end where planned, for which reason ever.
    Of course if the challenge is the only goal, even the tiny Nordhavn of some 42ft ? or the Diesel Duck "Idlewild" (much bigger)* can be called sufficient, but cruising as part of your leisure would be different. *both went round the world.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  2. Maddie
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: Trinidad & Tobago

    Maddie Junior Member

    Irrespective of the roots, this thread is about Minimum Passagemaker/Cruiser, Not about any perfect anything. Maybe its difficult for you, but some of us can live without perfection.

    Is it truly impossible to see "decent size, providing all a couple would need" as being very subjective? How in the world do you know what anyone needs?

    You also mention "insufficient speed". What exactly is that supposed to mean?
     
  3. MatthewDS
    Joined: Mar 2010
    Posts: 104
    Likes: 3, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 48
    Location: Juneau, Alaska

    MatthewDS Senior Member

    I would guess that Apex is referring to the fact that a slower boat will have to carry more provisions than a faster boat, because you spend more time between ports. Unfortunately, if the slower boat is also a smaller boat, you don't have room to carry the additional provisions.

    If a boat has insufficient speed, you may find yourself running out of food and water before you get where you are going.
     
  4. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
    Posts: 3,590
    Likes: 130, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2369
    Location: Australia

    Willallison Senior Member

    Longer is (almost) always better when it comes to displacement boats - and particularly when it comes to passagemakers. The increased 'displacement speed' afforded by the longer waterline is - quite apart from any other practical aspect - desirable as it helps one to avoid adverse weather. It also reduces passage times which reduces fatigue. And of course, fatigue is much greater when the weather turns nasty, so it's a bit of a spiral....

    (note, I did say almost...)
     
  5. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 27, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    Not my cup of tea but proof that low powered low tech passagemakers are out there

    [​IMG]
    http://idlewildexpedition.ca/theboat.htm
     
  6. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    I give up, you don´t get it anyway, and you don´t say what YOU would call sufficient. Perfect was not my term here, don´t put words in my mouth.

    So, then the minimum would be possibly a 14 ft sailing boat, just because it was done, ok? Although sailing boats are not the topic, but hey, who cares, as long as it is cheap.....

    Thank you Mathew,

    that were my thoughts, yes.

    And thanks Will, you hit the nail. almost...

    Yes Sabah,

    I mentioned Idlewild already in post #76. a rather uncomfortable vessel, but capable. She is for sale since the passage, nobody wants her.

    Regards
    Richard
     
  7. Maddie
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: Trinidad & Tobago

    Maddie Junior Member

    Besides the fuel for a motorboat, Why would the stores on a powerboat be any more than a sailboat?

    The reason I ask this is we are being told that sailboats can be a lot smaller, but a powerboat should be ~70' LOA.

    Won't a couple eat and drink the same amount no matter the boat?

    The only difference is fuel, and with low power and speed should be manageable. certainly sailboats regularly have 125 mile days and survive.

    I'm not on a schedule and make my passage at my own choosing.
     
  8. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    You should learn to read and comprehend before you contradict! Then soon start learning to sail, that may help to get a clue about requirements on ocean passages.

    Why are you blabbering about 70ft boats when, just above, I clearly said 50 - 60ft? And what would you like to prove with the comment on stores on sail and motorboats?
    Who said sailboats can be a lot smaller?

    If all your intension is just contradicting (especially me), learn how to do so!

    Richard
     
  9. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 4,519
    Likes: 109, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1009
    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Apex is referring to the fact that a slower boat will have to carry more provisions than a faster boat, because you spend more time between ports. Unfortunately, if the slower boat is also a smaller boat, you don't have room to carry the additional provisions.

    This is NOT SO.

    The usually limited volume of the small cruiser changes the TYPE of food , but lots of months of endurance is common.

    Dried foods , rice , beans are stored in 5 gal pails .

    Any concept of how many man days of food a 5 gal pail of rice is?

    A complete machine shop is a true waste of space as the materials to work with could be huge and heavy . Steel, cast iron , bronze, copper and a variety of plastics would need to be aboard.

    If material is purchased locally , the machine labor should also be purchases locally, ever rewind a windlass motor ? A pro does a better job.

    Ever weld cast iron? Again decades of practice is better purchased.

    I would be more concerned with carrying water for endurance than a metal fabrication shop.

    And I would much rather have a diesel fired heater , than a lathe or drill press for my wanderings..

    FF
     
  10. Maddie
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: Trinidad & Tobago

    Maddie Junior Member

    I did not speak to you.

    Please respect my views and don't respond to questions I have asked others.

    I was responding to a specific answer on the issue of stores.

    I found the assumptions in the answer inadequate and wanted clarification.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    So, when you misquote me, as you regularely do, in a post adressed to others, I have no right to comment?:mad:


    How can anyone here respect your views? By so far you have only contradicted for the contradictions sake, but never stated your point of view.
    Then, let us have your opinion. I am all ears.
     
  12. Maddie
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: Trinidad & Tobago

    Maddie Junior Member



    You contradict yourself not me.
     
  13. larry larisky

    larry larisky Previous Member

    the good workshop is part of endurance. in the middle of the ocean, you can't call a professional to repair your engine, or buy your parts, you have to do it yourself.
    a lot of things can go wrong, and to have as you said "endurance" you have to be self sufficient, not only in food and water.
    the forgotten factor is to be able to take care of all the need of the vessel.
    a shaft bearing broken, and you can eat the rice for the rest of your life in the middle of the ocean.
    the diesel heather is obvious, but i don't see the relevance here. of course you have a heating system. apple orange?
     
  14. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Hmm, I see, you are not after info but a fight. Quoting is your specialty yes? Misquoting I mean.

    The first statement was about a "sensible" size, the second about a "minimal". Do you see a difference?
    No, I assume, because that would make your misquoting senseless.

    Anything else to drivel this thread to death?:mad:
     

  15. Maddie
    Joined: Jan 2010
    Posts: 16
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 17
    Location: Trinidad & Tobago

    Maddie Junior Member

    I completely agree with your analysis.

    Human related stores can be carried, and have been carried for long voyages on smaller boats.

    The fuel store is the determining factor of range, and this is directly related to hull drag and cruising speed.

    I still believe in modern watermakers as being a range liberator. Certain foods are very compact and light. A lot of us have forgotten how to prepare basic foods.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.