Minimum Passagemaker/Cruiser

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by mydauphin, Sep 29, 2010.

?

What is minimum that you can handle?

Poll closed Oct 29, 2010.
  1. I can only live in a proper yacht

    2 vote(s)
    6.1%
  2. Need: Size between 40 and 50 feet

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  3. Need: Size between 30 and 40 feet

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  4. Need: Size smaller than 30 feet ok

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  5. Need: Power

    22 vote(s)
    66.7%
  6. Need: Sail

    19 vote(s)
    57.6%
  7. Need: Single Engine

    24 vote(s)
    72.7%
  8. Need: Twin Engine

    5 vote(s)
    15.2%
  9. Need: Head and holding tank

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
  10. Need: Air conditioner and Generator

    7 vote(s)
    21.2%
  11. Need: Watermaker

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  12. I don't care if interior looks like my garage

    8 vote(s)
    24.2%
  13. Need: DC Power Only

    15 vote(s)
    45.5%
  14. Need: Carpeting

    4 vote(s)
    12.1%
  15. Need: Wood floors

    9 vote(s)
    27.3%
  16. Need: Satellite TV

    3 vote(s)
    9.1%
  17. Need: Internet

    13 vote(s)
    39.4%
  18. Need: Hot Water Shower

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  19. Need: Manual Bilge pumps

    17 vote(s)
    51.5%
  20. Need: Propane Stove

    16 vote(s)
    48.5%
  21. Need: Freezer

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  22. Need: A boat that won't shame me at the marina.

    12 vote(s)
    36.4%
  23. Need: Windlass

    18 vote(s)
    54.5%
  24. Need: Dingy

    26 vote(s)
    78.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. TeddyDiver
    Joined: Dec 2007
    Posts: 2,577
    Likes: 120, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1650
    Location: Finland/Norway

    TeddyDiver Gollywobbler

    Some months of a year to be excact.. and even then it's sometimes a bit chilly.
    It's reasonable also to continue the list with pacific NW, New England and further north (not only Labrador), NE Asia and so on..
     
  2. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    No Michael you take me out of context. 50 degrees latitude is 50 degrees latitude.
     
  3. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 27, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    As has been mentioned here now, there are many places in the north that could be cruised comfortably in a cat. if you so chose.
    I live south and its all open ocean down here.......nothing to see. no where to go south of 44 deg (Penguins and Ice)
    Like I said previously
    Not everyone has a need for a vessel to tackle the blizzards and mountaneous seeas of the higher latitudes
    So for them, it would be pointless to build and pay for the extra material (weight = $$$) for that vessel if not required


    Dry weight for mine is supposed to be 4700kg
    Displacement of 8700kg
    Thats 4000kg for fuel, batteries and beer
    I reckon I can even leave my toothbrushes full sized.;)

    I'll be the same on the backyard build including "some" paid help
    Yard build would in Australia at least would be considerably more, but considerably cheaper in other countries.
    I will get mine in the water liveable and working and get the finer details finished off in Asia at a more affordable hourly rate.



    Arguably, see above
    and it is only half a boat so you should expect less expense (;

    True again and nor would I want them
    But I will have a proper comfortable lounge
    A proper king sized bed
    cold refrigeration
    and quite possibly a/c for those unbearable airless nights.
    What more could one want?


    Similar powerplant, though I have 2 (redundancy)
    and similar fuel capacity
    So I would imagine similar range at around 8 knots (1 engine)

    and me
    Undecided on 24 volt yet, most are talking me out of it infavour of 12v


    Like you said at the start, its a compromise and a minimum passagemaker
    I'd rather go with what was attainable now than perhaps never
     
  4. Pierre R
    Joined: May 2007
    Posts: 461
    Likes: 32, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 458
    Location: ohio, USA

    Pierre R Senior Member

    Forget the batteries and fuel, the beer is more important.

    Now its my understanding that you are still in the build stage and do not have a functionally operable boat yet? As a home builder the chances of you building exactly according to plans is about zip. I have not seen a home built yet that came in anywhere close to the empty weight listed on the plans. The overall results of owner/builder changes is always a boat that performs less than what you expect. Building you own boat is a bit like the fox watching the hen house. Your dreams tend to overbuild even before you know what the boat will do.

    That reminds me. Your boat will not live up to your expectations because you made to many dream changes early. It remains to be seen whether your boat will perform as advertised.
     
  5. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 27, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    Well considering that I have built before and came in under weight
    And this design was originally a 28 ft wide boat and is now 24 ft wide, so a fair bit less boat for the hulls to carry
    And I work on the principle of "save a lb a thousand times and you've saved a 1000lb's" (Geoff Cruse proverb) I reckon I'll be pretty close thanks


    What dream changes were they Pierre?

    That it does
    But considering that there are shorter length fatter hulled versions doing it exactly as stated with smaller HP, I would think that a longer, skinnier version should do OK
    Do you see any reason why it shouldnt?
     
  6. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,815
    Likes: 57, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Pierre, You are basically right about a lot of home built boats coming in over the design weight, the same is true of many production built boats unfortunatly. Sabahcats powercat has a very good chance of not being such a boat because even though he is building it in his backyard for himself he is a boatbuilder by trade i believe and also this is not the first multihull he has built for himself and rather than building the usual quart in a pint pot he has gone the opposite building a long boat with restrained accomodations, low power etc, a well thought out boat. I am looking forward to seeing how it performs myself but from reading his posts over a couple of years im confident that he should meet his performance goals.
    Steve.
     
  7. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,815
    Likes: 57, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Sabah, I like your mantra, ill have to remember that one. Ive always believed that if you take care of the ounces the pounds will take care of themselves,same principle.
    Steve.
     
  8. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Once you actually get out there on the water and start having fun...ALL BOATS ARE OVERWEIGHT. Im sailing 4 tons overweight...WHO CARES ! Mono is no different from Multi. Its well worthwhile to concentrate your mind on weight savings while building and fitting out . Difficult on multi's because for their length they have heaps of available space for " Stuff" and there is a temptation to have it all, plus the fact that they have two hulls, so much duplication. Be vigilant , Particularly keeping weight out of their fine ends and out of the air. The "funky" cats that are heavy ended hobbyhorse like crazy in a seaway. Things like fore and aft decks need to be light. Most of the really nice 15 to 20 meter Multi's I see solve livability with simple elegance, simple design, simple systems. A multi next to me has her second head shower setup right in the cockpit !!...open a cockpit locker and presto...a deck toilet !!!! and have no doubt, from seeing their cruise schedule that they are plenty robust and seaworthy.. I regularly have cruising multis, 5 meters shorter than me, peacefully sail right past me on a nice reach...they can cover the miles. Great bang for the buck.
     
  9. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 27, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    Multi is affected greatly if overweight

    [​IMG]

    Two boats overlayed
    One 41
    One 50
    Almost identical accommodation (I have less) , stowage and spacings
    50fter has an extra 1500kg displacement
     
  10. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    And there are two distinct boat missions. Cruising and passagemaking. When cruising I see boats way overloaded with good stuff like water. GREAT IDEA !! Who cares if your an overweight water barge when on a three week cruise out island ? Obviously when its time to make a move, you lighten ship and scoot. A great boat has this ability to change..morph ... from tortoise to hare...depending on the mission.
     
  11. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    By all means...........

    especially when it comes to understand professional, and worldwide agreed terms!

    Multihulls are not part of the game, you dumb and stubborn nickel.
     
  12. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
    Posts: 1,815
    Likes: 57, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 608
    Location: Duluth, Minnesota

    Steve W Senior Member

    Apex, Multihulls are not part of what game? are you saying they cant be refered to as passagemakers? Im confused.
    Steve.
     
  13. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    A boatbuilder by trade? I laugh my socks off.

    As long as I am subsribed here, that dumb nickel has redesigned his floatsam three times at least.
    A boatbuilder?

    That is a agressive amateur, with some very restricted knowledge about ocean crossings, thats it! On top of that, a dumb novice, trying to redesign his formerly proven craft every other week.
    You should have followed his "history" to notice, that guy knows not much.

    Ähh, *********, a premature attempt to a neverending story! Masalay has shown how it goes! Fanie is in the better stage, Manie is going straight, Murielle has success.
    Sabbahcat is providing drivel meanwhile.......

    Of course not.

    A cat is not a seaworthy boat. Such easy is colour TV.

    Ever watched races?
     
  14. sabahcat
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 792
    Likes: 27, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 273
    Location: australia

    sabahcat Senior Member

    You will of course have evidence of this?

    No?...................................so you drivel rivers of ****.

    The only change that has been discussed is dinghy location on front deck, in addition to the aft storage
    And profile of the flybridge.

    None, which are considered a re-design in my opinion
     

  15. apex1

    apex1 Guest

    Go for it, you are so right *********. But go! Do not tell the readers here, you would know anything. You are just a biased, well, I do not say @sshole, but I meant it.

    No regards **** (you remember, you are the pro on twats)
     
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