Mini Ocean Racing Scow

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Aug 2, 2011.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 14,025
    Likes: 121, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    This is from the Daily Sail: ( http://www.thedailysail.com/offshore/11/59363/0/david-raison-wins-the-transgascogne )

    The (winning) bathtub
    David Raison's scow Mini wins the Proto class in the Transgascogne

    Tuesday August 2nd 2011, Author: James Boyd, Location: France
    David Raison and his scow Mini Team Work Evolution (read more about them here) have won the 2011 Transgascogne in the Proto class. After winning the opening 370 mile leg from St Hilaire via Belle île to Ribadeo in Galicia (between Gijon and La Coruna), Raison was second home on the return leg to Port Bourgenay, arriving at 01:33:16 GMT this morning, 1 hour 31 minutes ahead of Thomas Normand on Financière de l'Echiquier, winner of the second leg in the Proto class. In the wake of these two skippers from Lorient, arrivals are expected throughout the rest of the night and well into the day.

    "It was a good race, I'm really happy!" commented Raison on his arrival. "...happy for me but also for my partners. Having been on the Mini circuit since 2005, I am very pleased - this victory is a just reward!

    "Strategy aside - I must look at all the plots to analyse that, but, the weather data and that broadcast by Radio France, was sufficient for the tactics. It was not super complicated.

    "After, we had to sail the boat, working on pure speed ... My boat is not designed for soft conditions, but as she is light, it doesn't go too badly. But above all I put this down to the hard work carried out this winter with our coach Tanguy Leglatin that has paid off.

    "With a two hours lead after the first leg, there was some hope of victory but there were many competitors to control. Thomas had a great race. He was not deterred by the first leg: despite his torn Solent, he hung in there, he repaired the sail in Spain and now he's won this leg and finished second overall... But he might well have won too! I am very happy for him!

    "As for the Mini Transat, I feel confident I have a reliable and solid boat. I knew she was fast, she was very promising in speed-tests...I hope not to have too much pressure at the start of the Transat. The last Mini I sailed was in 1993 Series boat, when I was one of the favorites and it's not very pleasant that pressure..."



    click on image--
     

    Attached Files:

  2. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 980
    Likes: 14, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 185
    Location: usa

    frank smith Senior Member

    It is a good solution to the problem of limited water line and a wide *** stern.
    Take a look at some of the micro ocean boats .[​IMG]
     
  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 14,025
    Likes: 121, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Mini Scow

    Interesting comment from Scuttlebut Europe today:

    With this success, the qualities of his experimental mini with a round bow, greeted with smile at her first appearance, were clearly demonstrated. Especially the gliding qualities of this design surpass the competitors by far. David Raison is therefore one of the big favorites of the Mini-Transat beginning in September, the highlight of the season for the Minis. All other boats of the 48 participants' fleet were still underway this morning at press time.
     
  4. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,756
    Likes: 64, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Aren't these races mostly down wind? If so, a more pram like hull has a big advantage. The bow is less likely to dig in while the boat is hard pressed.

    I define a scow as a boat that has a forward transom width that is greater than half the aft transom width. I know this definition is by no means universal, but I think a line has to be drawn somewhere.

    I won't be surprised if we see a true scow (by my definition) emerge as the Mini Class develops. Such would easily pass the inclining test specified in the class rules (which is pretty much determined by the weight and depth of the ballast and the depth of the main hull section), yet have greater initial stability, which means greater sail carrying ability.

    The greater buoyancy and greater hull surface up forward will most certainly encourage planing.

    The real problem is if such craft turtles (capsizes completely upside down). The greater initial stability right side up will then equal greater initial stability upside down.
     
  5. sawmaster
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: tyler,tx

    sawmaster Senior Member

    I seem to remember that Doug made mention of this design acouple of months back and posted a photo of it at that time.If I remember correctly,the design was criticised by some as not being a very good idea--oh well--Iguess it was good enough to win. Sawmaster(a scow fan)
     
  6. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 1,756
    Likes: 64, Points: 48, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    This would not be the first pram like sail boat to prove itself seaworthy. There are the Pelican and Great Pelican designs, the latter of which crossed the Pacific ocean.

    Now there is the Scamp design which, at a mere twelve feet minus, recently completed the Everglades 300.

    Both of these voyages were mostly downwind. An upwind voyage might be another matter.
     
  7. sawmaster
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: tyler,tx

    sawmaster Senior Member

    ocean scow

    yes, I can see how steep chop might be a problem,although the photo Doug posted of the boat well- heeled shows the bluff bow pretty high off the water. ---Saw
     
  8. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 980
    Likes: 14, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 185
    Location: usa

    frank smith Senior Member

    Might be an opportunity to produce a cheap ply scow and race. Kinda like going back to the beginning. It could be fast, and give a torturous ride.
     
  9. sawmaster
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: tyler,tx

    sawmaster Senior Member

    yes,I would love to see what kind of designs folks would come up with.Although I dont know if I'm brave/foolhardy enough to set off across the OCEAN on a self-built cheap plywood scow of my own design,(There are some folks on this forum who are good enough designers they could probably pull it off),I would be game enough to attempt an overnight race in open water with the proper safety equipment,(EPRIB,etc).It could be fast and fun, without being absolutely exausting.
     
  10. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 980
    Likes: 14, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 185
    Location: usa

    frank smith Senior Member

    I think the main problem is getting low weight at low cost . The strength of low cost is no problem, but with the weight increase the s/a has increase and the ballast has to increase.
    so round and round we go . But if we took the idea of the ocean being the equalizer , then there might be a chance. It would be fun to do , and a return to the original concept
    of the "mini" race .
     
  11. sawmaster
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: tyler,tx

    sawmaster Senior Member

    mini ocean scow

    I believe the best cost to lowest wt.ratio might be found in the stringer frame method of construction as outlined in the Geougeon brothers book on boat construction--,a type of construction especially suitable for flat or shallow vee hull shapes found on many lake scows.The rounded nose found on this years winner could be replaced with an upswept bottom and a small forward transom to avoid the more costly and time consuming double diagonal verniers required to tourture plywood into those types of curves.
     
  12. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
    Posts: 980
    Likes: 14, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 185
    Location: usa

    frank smith Senior Member

    Ok , forget about the canting keel . How does it carry the amount of sail to make it at all competitive ? And how do we make it self righting ? I assume this mini is foam core carbon fiber .
     
  13. sawmaster
    Joined: May 2010
    Posts: 112
    Likes: 2, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 30
    Location: tyler,tx

    sawmaster Senior Member

    yes,it probably is foam core carbon fiber ,and any plywood design built on the cheap is probably not going to be competitive with it,but I understood the general Idea was to build a new class of low cost scow- like racers to compete among themselves,not to try to upstage the status quo.As for self righting capabilities(a quality that would be much more important in an extended ocean race,than the occasional overnighter I envision),I must confess a certain amount of ignorance on the subject as I have never righted anything larger than a Hobie 16--difficult,even under the best of conditions.I suppose some sort of ugly,but bouyant foam masthead flotation device,combined with a method of lengthening the shrouds on the high side might suffice to right a beamy hull from a 90 Degree knockdown,but I would have to get advice from the experts as to the particulars.As to how to get enough sail area to be competitive with existing designs,that may not be possible,but the formula for speed in scows has been known for a long time,beamy,planing hulls that FLY downwind,and heel enough upwind to greatly reduce drag and wetted surface. ---Saw---
     
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 14,025
    Likes: 121, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready


  15. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 1,614
    Likes: 96, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1151
    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    So cool, fast, innovative, ugly. I love it....
    Would some kind of marine "airbag", like a car has, work for righting these things?
    Top of the mast is no good but possibly at the base of the mast, and on inflating, giving lift and getting the boat back to 90 degree heel, where hopefully the ballast would take over.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.