mini 6.5 in Baltic sea?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Perm Stress, Mar 17, 2013.

  1. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    I wonder, how such an open ocean boat, designed for long Atlantic swell, would behave in a Baltic sea, where waves are significantly shorter and steeper; or worse still, in some large lake or lagoon, ~3-4m deep, where waves are like closely spaced brick walls, as compared to gentle hills of an ocean swell.
    Any info?
    Firsthand experience?
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I have no experience. The Med has a short confused wave pattern and the minis seem OK with it.

    Those Minis are designed for offwind surfing and ease of handling under autopilot. .

    Coastal work, like the Baltic , means upwind legs. I wouldn't consider them a good coastal boat . Boats like the Beneteau Figaro2 would be better as a coastal boat
     
  3. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    What part of Med do you have in mind?
    The waves in parts I did happen to test (Aegean and Corsica-Sardinia) are a pure joy as compared to Baltic.
    ____

    At first glance, I would agree.
    At the second thought, it is not so crystal clear:
    Upwind against chop they look out of optimal proportions, but extra righting moment gained by large beam and waterballast or canting keel, should help to offset this.
    _____

    ???
     
  4. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I was just saying that the Figaro is a more versatile design. Minis are purpose built for sailing across the Atlantic. Personally I prefer a coastal cruising boat that is optimized for upwind performance. Not much surfing when cruising, speed can be dangerous inshore and a cruiser tends to be heavier with several cases of beer, plus fun stuff and anchors onboard.

    The med is full of land masss that bend the wind directions. A heavy north westerly swell coming from the Gulf de Leon , crossed with a brisk wsw wind blowing along the north african coast is a typical bad day. Plenty choppy upwind or downwind. Choke points like the Sicilian channel, south of Sardinia, north of Corsica, Bonafacio, the Otronto ... plus sharp rocky coastlines that refract waves add to the fun.

    Im remembering last year crossing the Tyrrhenian sea. 5 knots of wind, upwind..no sails, , motoring, but a sea state so aggressive that I bore off course , backed down on the throttle and hove too....Decks awash.

    Ive sailed the Baltic several times during summer...mostly Sweden Finland Denmark ... protected water...not familiar with offshore condtions.
     
  5. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    In Baltic offshore, we have ~2m deep thermal layer in summer, acting like "bottom" for waves;
    the result is wave height is rarely much higher as 2-2.5m (summer) in any wind, and when energy just do not fit in, we have a two sets of ~2.5 m waves of slightly different length, traveling in same direction, at slightly different speeds.
    Double tops, square backs, and all that stuff.
    if forward of the mast, the boat is constantly trying to land just a 1m or so to the side of the place you would land in the freefal. :)
     
  6. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    I am curious about mini 6.5 now.
    I know pretty well it is not optimal for coastal sailing.
     
  7. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I would imagine that you also have wave refraction of the coasts.

    I do remember a very fast sail we had from Kronstadt Island in Russia to Talin Estonia. Strong Easterly breeze. It was a big boat so I didt realy notice waves.

    In the Med there are quite a few water density induced eddies and currents that bulk up waves and cause trouble.

    If your an Ipad guy you should download WEATHER TRACK. Its a Grib file reader. Think it cost 7 euro for the program. Good stuff and lots of handy links.

    [​IMG]


    http://[​IMG]
     
  8. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    Than Ok, but we do go a bit off-topic here.
    The point of interest is still mini 6.5 in short steep sea characteristic for (shallow) coastal and inland waters
     
  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Well...if someone were to give me a Mini for free...Id say thanks !!!... then clean it up ... sell it , then buy a used mumm 30. They haul *** upwind in a chop.
     
  10. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Have you looked at the older designs, before they started building downwind sleds? They were more balanced and may work better for you.
     
  11. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    Dear Sirs ;D
    The intended topic is about "how the mini 650 behave in coastal areas with short steep seas", not "what boat to chose for coastal areas with short steep seas"...
     
  12. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    What older designs do you mean in particular?
     
  13. sean9c
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    sean9c Senior Member

    Your question has to be more specific, Mini's are designed for single handed sailing and compromises are made for that. If your question was to suggest what other 6.5m boat designed for single handed sailing would do better in those conditions I think you would draw a blank. A Mini 6.5 is a pretty powerful package, it has sail area and the RM to carry it. I'd think that if the sea conditions you've described were part of a Mini race course that the designers, sailmakers, sailors would adapt the boats pretty well. Obviously if you went to a designer and had him draw a 6.5m boat specifically for those conditions it might be another shape, though you still need the same basic things, power (sail area) and the ability to carry it (RM).
    Not sure how suggesting a Figaro 2 is relevant, it's 10.1m, obviously a boat that is 3.6m longer will perform better.
     
  14. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I mean the designs prior to 1985.
     

  15. Perm Stress
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    Perm Stress Senior Member

    I am specific.
    I design boats myself.
    The topic is existing mini650 in coastal areas of sea and large inland lakes and lagoons.
    Not "something with LOA 6.5m for coastal areas" or similar.
    And I look for firsthand info (or link to firsthand info) first and foremost, not for speculations -I can speculate quite well myself ;). But as David Raison proved recently, speculations could be wrong from the outset...
     
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