Maximum simple trailerable power cruiser - looking for ideas

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Steve2ManyBoats, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    followed steve2manyboats & others comments

    Wondering what he concluded and whether a Wyoming or other similar style was adopted for a large trailerable 8.5 foot beam riverboat.
     
  2. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "No way to make it work on an 8.5 ft. beam and a 53 ft. trailerable load."

    One problem is commercial trucks are not very restricted on LOA.

    A private, noncommercial vehicle with a tow is limited to 55 or 65ft from front bumper to rear of the tow.

    NO 53 ft load , unless you have a 2 ft long car!

    This might be a consideration depending on which state you will be towing thru.

    FF
     
  3. Steve2ManyBoats
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    Steve2ManyBoats Junior Member

    Update on idea and some info on noncommercial trailer lengths...

    The information immediately above on trailer lengths is not correct. trailer lengths vary by state - some have no specific non-commercal trailer lengths - but most states fall somewhere between 40 and 45 ft non-commercial trailer length (not total vehicle length) without needing a special permit. If you figure that the tongue of the trailer will extend three or so feet in front of the bow of the boat, that leaves a possible boat length of 37 to 40 ft - which still fits my parameters.

    Regarding Bolger's Wyoming - while that surely is an efficient design and easy to build, I'm not considering a flat bottomed boat since much of the cruising I envision is coastal but can get a bit choppy and a v-bottom would be preferrable if planing is envisioned. I do like some of the design elements of the Wyoming - like a small forward cockpit - that may find their way into this design.

    Regarding this design, I've put it on the back burner. I took stock of how I want to begin spending my retirement in 10 months and decided I'd rather travel than build a large boat, at least at first. So I bought a Tomcat 9.7 - a very light, fast and simple 32 ft sailing catamaran. So far, it's proven to be everything I'd hoped for - comfortable, roomy (for a couple), fast, very shoal draft (18") and problem free.

    In support of my trailer boat adventures, I'm refurbishing a pretty little 20 composite Chesapeake-style baybuilt workboat I designed and built 20 years ago. The trailer travel adventuring plan is the same as for the larger cruiser - just shorter day trips on shorter vacations and evenings spent in hotels and not on the hook. A somewhat scaled-plan, but a workable one while I figure out what the larger boat should be and get up the intertia to build it.

    However, this cruising cat poses another interesting design problem - the need for a dinghy that's:

    1. Light enough to carry on davits without the light cat dragging its transoms
    2. Sturdy enough to carry 3 adults
    3. Efficient enough and shaped to plane
    4. Small enough to fit between the hulls.
    5. Not a "deflatable"

    The Livingston 9 is an interesting boat but it's too narrow, too low-sided and too heavy for my needs. So I'll be designing and building a small planing catamaran dinghy shortly - summer is coming and I need a dinghy for our weekend cruises.

    I'd like to keep the thread about the trailerable cruiser alive, if anyone is interested, because I think it's an interesting idea and I'm definitely going to design and build that boat, just not this year or next.

    Thanks...Steve2ManyBoats.
     
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  4. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    OK..let's see if there are any current solutions to the trailerable riverboat of 37' by 8.5' parameters. I've lived in SE Alaska where one would think shallow draft boats aren't important. This is a misunderstanding as there are beaches, gravelly and otherwise in most coves, near rivers, and streams are often accessible for some distance at high and low water to some degree and these are the places one should be able to go :) Add to this the safety factor of passing over that rock that others might have hit and cruising through the kelp and shallow draft is still a major factor in AK & BC. The inside passage has had a few narrowboats in its loosest sense, Lake Union style and maybe others. The ability to take the beach is very important because of the radical tides and this can be considered a survival attribute when the wind is up. There's lots of nice water outside Alaska and BC where extreme shallow draft is very nice, where trailerability can avoid "the REAL ocean". It appears to me that twin skegs would help a little with direction stability, hull protection on the beach, and as surfaces for the trailer rollers when launching and retrieving. The mentioning of relatively inexpensive bow thrusters seems helpful, but would twin outboards provide enough control for maneuvering without the thruster in a 37'er? A problem where it rains a lot is that flooding of the vessel is possible. The narrow hull means pass through for line/anchor handling and the canal boat style is mostly covered for the accommodations and possibly without exterior catwalks. The associated roof can be covered with solar panels. A low power auxiliary electric drive might extend the range. Some canalboats have found it suitable to have a sliding roof amidships to open when the conditions are fair. Some sort of pilot house, maybe forward like in the Wyoming (Bolger) seems like a good idea to me. A negative factor to consider when cruising the Sacremento Delta in California is that levies can be high and many cruisers prefer high flying bridges to see over the levies and this wouldn't work well on the proposed design. Halibut schooners routinely use hydroplanes on outriggers for roll control so simple ones seem reasonable when at anchor and in moderate winds. One of the outriggers might be pivoted for dingy launching and the other carry the VHF antenna when vertical. Tunnels for prop protection, maybe, or just adjustable height for the outboards. There apparently were larger props used at one time that actually pierced the surface of the water under shallow conditions. Finally, it should be obvious that the proposed design is in the ultralight category and every pound should be carefully considered, not only whether it is necessary, but where it is placed, longitudinally, laterally, and vertically much like one should do with a multihull. Any thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2012
  5. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

  6. thudpucker
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    thudpucker Senior Member

    Jakson that's an interesting design.
    Suppose you laid up for a nice sunny day, recharging the batteries.
    How far would it cruise on full batteries?

    If the Water's choppy, the day windy, what Cruise speed could it hold, and how long would the batteries last in a mess like that?
     
  7. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    The intention would be for a hybrid vessel. Considering my Camry hybrid can go many miles on a 150 pound battery I guess that a vessel could do the same. A major difference between the original parameters that Steve mentioned (planing speeds) and mine is that 3 knots is a good speed for me. Sure beats rowing :) If the day is windy and choppy I'd stay beached or anchored up!
     
  8. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    - some have no specific non-commercal trailer lengths - but most states fall somewhere between 40 and 45 ft non-commercial trailer length (not total vehicle length) without needing a special permit."

    Almost EVERY state does also have a non commercial total LOA , regardless of trailer size.

    And many do not offer an over length permit at all.

    FF
     
  9. Squidly-Diddly
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    Squidly-Diddly Senior Member

    If you stuck to max-containerable size it would be practical to

    trailer with privately owned standard size F-350 type truck and be able to be towed by someone with normal non-commercial driver's license.
     
  10. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    Hi cube container is 39' 6" inside length, 7'8" wide inside and 8'10" inside height. How much weight can a F-350 tow legally and safely?
     
  11. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    How much weight can a F-350 tow legally and safely?


    The truck Mfg has "guidelines" on the trucks towing ability ,
    but the LAW mostly concerns the truck hitch rating , and the braking system on the trailer.

    The 5th wheel setup seems to be able to handle the most weight.

    I would be very wary of going over 26,000lbs for the total weight of truck and trailer loaded . with out a CDL. (commercial drivers license).

    FF
     
  12. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    Thanks for that FF. Does this mean that the towing capability of the f-350 and the boat weight aren't limiting factors in a 37 by 8.5 footer?
     
  13. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    I liked Squidly-Diddly's idea of limiting the vessel size to below 39.5 but reducing the width from 8.5 to 7'8"; justifying the 10" loss is too difficult for me so far. Little compromises can add up.
     
  14. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Does this mean that the towing capability of the f-350 and the boat weight aren't limiting factors in a 37 by 8.5 footer?"

    Well yes and no.

    If you wanted to tow coast to coast multiple times a used commercial style truck (under $10K ) would be far better.

    For a tow from the marina to home or other modest distances , no problem.

    The truck WILL wear more rapidly , the engine working harder , the tranny creating more heat.

    The brakes will also work harder , even tho a breaking system will be required for the trailer.

    Most boat trailers use "surge" brakes where the tow vehicle deceleration caused the trailer hyd brakes to function.

    To create the force , the tow vehicle will first have to slow the entire package.

    As a guesstimate figure 1/2 to 3/4 LESS lifetime mileage from the tow vehicle for each mile while towing.

    This of course depends on the weight towed but over 2 1/2 times the tow vehicle weight begins to get iffy to tow, you simply need a bigger tow truck.

    FF
     

  15. Jakson
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    Jakson Junior Member

    Fast Fred: I was thinking more from the boat design standpoint but the factors you mentioned were important, along with leaving the tow vehicle and trailer in a yard for the duration of the cruise. I envision a trip across the country and one way water cruises, going back to get the tow vehicle, etc.
     
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