Mastless Crab Claw ?

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Canada Bob, Mar 10, 2011.

  1. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

    Both sailboard rigs and crabclaw sails have to be dropped to stop.

    Ah, Blackpool, Nova Scotia. I know it well. Miniature Eiffel Tower and street cars lacking in desire. Good fish & chips though.

    Fair weather sailing is the only way to do it. Drop the lateen rig in seconds and start the outboard. Head back to the yacht club, a hot shower, then bar and restaurant. It's supposed to be fun, not misery. :)

    Here are two very useful Michael Storer links.

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/tradrigperformance.html

    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html

    Lateen

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateen

    Best wishes.

    P
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2011
  2. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

  3. yipster
    Joined: Oct 2002
    Posts: 3,486
    Likes: 96, Points: 58, Legacy Rep: 1148
    Location: netherlands

    yipster designer

  4. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

  5. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello Pericles

    Ah, Blackpool, Nova Scotia. I know it well. Miniature Eiffel Tower and street cars lacking in desire. Good fish & chips though.

    Aye, too true about Blackpool on all counts although at week ends there's no shortage of "desire" under the North Pier in Blackpool ;) Nova Scotia is a different kettle of fish though, great place to have a boat, there's over 4,600 miles of coastline, much of it sheltered bays, some great fishing spots, not to mention scuba diving or snorkeling areas.

    Fair weather sailing is the only way to do it. Drop the lateen rig in seconds and start the outboard. Head back to the yacht club, a hot shower, then bar and restaurant. It's supposed to be fun, not misery. :)

    Can't argue with that,you would like the Royal Nova Scotia Yacht Club then, but I like storm and tempest, if the boat or ship is big enough that is.

    Crossed the Atlantic a few times, QEII on 2-3 occasions, Southampton - New York, but also sailed Montreal - Liverpool/London Ports {Canvey Island etc} on container ships as a passenger. My first Transatlantic crossing was Tilbury - Montreal in 1982 on the good ship Stefan Batory, the last passenger ship to sail between Europe & Canada.

    Since these crossings I've always fancied crossing the Atlantic in a sail boat of one kind or another, being in the middle of an Ocean gives you some idea of the scale of this planet we live on.

    Here are two very useful Michael Storer links.
    http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/tradrigperformance.html
    http://www.storerboatplans.com/GIS/GISRigging.html
    Lateen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateen

    Brilliant, really enjoyed reading the links, Thanks...

    Canada Bob.
     
  6. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

  7. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

    Canada Bob,

    The bags, or some of them, are moved from side to side for each tack or gybe together with the movable ballast or crew. A congress of motions! Launching and recovering must mean much humping. :p

    P.
     
  8. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Bags of sand though :confused: I wouldn't want to be heeling at 15 degrees and hoping that the bags stay where they are needed, Them A rabs have more nerve that I have ;)

    After looking at the rigs on Proa's, Dhow's and the like, it seems to me as though the vaulting poles could make the need for a conventional mast obsolete.
    I've half a dozen sketches now based on my original thoughts, furthered and bettered by the comments and enlightenments from the guys in here, Thanks again for that, appreciated.

    Regarding vaulting poles, they don't come cheap, {mind you, they are cheaper than masts though} but they average around $400 to $700 for the top of the line poles, but you can get used {either lightly used, or even never used} poles for half the price, but chances are if you talk to a club nicely or take them out for a sail, you just might find they'll donate a pole or two.

    Poles come in varying degrees of flexibility and lengths {12ft to 16ft} but they are all sectional, they come in two parts so that they can be transported easily, so in many ways including price they seem to lend themselves to the job at hand.

    Does anyone see a flaw in holstering a pole at or near the bow, then adjusting the tension/flex/angle via stays at or near the stern ? After that it's all down to designing an appropriate sail shape, it won't be a loose foot though after advice provided by Yipster...

    I can barely wait to get back to 44-34 56.12 West x 63-27 31.42 well, if not exactly there, sailing by at least...

    Canada Bob.
     
  9. Alex.A
    Joined: Feb 2010
    Posts: 348
    Likes: 9, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 108
    Location: South Africa

    Alex.A Senior Member

    Why are so many people anti crabclaws/oceanic lateens?
    Not the perfect sail- granted but as a cheapie cruising rig - why not?
    Can build all of it DIY and at a small fraction of the cost.
    Glenn Tiemann and his Wharram child of the sea have sailed far solo and even had a few decent days runs.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2011
  10. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hmmm, more to this than I'd thought...

    I had a Guinness with a local / Irish Sea sailor today and we were discussing how I might be able to use the vaulting poles, but...

    He said I might have a problem there, what happens to the shape of the sail when the top spar bends, he said it might finish up like a bra on a washing line :-(

    Anyone any thoughts on that ?

    Canada Bob.
     
  11. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

    CB,

    Loose laced to the stiffest vaulting pole spar you can obtain. Vertically panelled sail, cut to follow the average bend of the spar. As a test, try stringing a vaulting pole as a bow and drawing it. You'll need help!!

    I suspect you will not have problems with the peak of the sail twisting off, as you should be in the clubhouse in that kind of weather. ;) Review the video of the Vela Latina Canaria for inspiration. Avanti! Avante! Onward!

    Regards,

    Perry
     

    Attached Files:

  12. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    Hello Perry...

    Right, I get it with the cut of the sail, thankfully I have a couple of months yet before I measure twice and cut once ;) The video that you mention, where do I find that ?

    Thanks again for the feedback, valued and appreciated.

    Canada Bob.

    PS... I was taking my constitutional heading south along the Prom at lunch time yesterday when I noticed a dot in the sky headed towards me, as it got closer {on a dead run at me} I could see it was a helicopter, figured it was one of the commercial helicopters that service the gas rigs a few miles offshore, but...

    As it got closer {it wasn't speeding along it was doing little more than 40 mph}. I could see a radar pod on top of it, I was amazed that an Apache Attack Helicopter would be following the Prom at Blackpool. It passed over my head at no more than 200ft above me, one hell of an experience. I could see the chain gun, rocket launchers, the lot, including the co pilot/gunner, who on seeing my amazement gave me a wave. The sound they make is eerie, and the thing itself in flight is stunning, that wooofing noise it made as it passed right over the top of me, I want one ;)

    I was so gobsmacked that by the time I'd grabbed my phone/camera they'd got a few furlongs past me :rolleyes: I watched to see where it was heading to, and once past Fleetwood it was left hand down a bit, and off towards Barrow in Furness. Seemed to have Army markings on it, not RAF ?

    You see a few things in Blackpool, but rarely anything like that.
     
  13. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

  14. Pericles
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,010
    Likes: 136, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 1307
    Location: Heights of High Wycombe, not far from River Thames

    Pericles Senior Member

    CB,

    The Lateen spar can be two (or even three sections, if the spar is tired) lashed together for stiffness. The sail tack seems to be more reinforced than the head and clew.

    Here is a old thread of four pages

    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/sailboats/lateen-sails-14674.html

    On page 4 is a link from pebbletripper who posted thrice. He's built a viking ship!

    http://www.davidjones.uk.com/viking-long-boat

    You will be following a long line of navigators. Here is a link that Guillermo posted in 2006, also in the same thread, page1, #14.

    http://nabataea.net/sailing.html

    All the best,

    Perry
     

    Attached Files:


  15. Canada Bob
    Joined: Apr 2009
    Posts: 64
    Likes: 2, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 22
    Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia

    Canada Bob Junior Member

    The RAF are fixed wing, choppers are Army. Don't ask; it's political procurement.:eek::eek::eek: Lie back and think of England.

    Hmmm, I still can't figure out where it had come from, or where it was heading.

    Were there loudspeakers attached?
    Thankfully not ;)

    Thanks for the link to the Vela Latina Canaria, just watched it, I was wondering how they'd jib with the mast in the way, but amazed how they did it and how they have it off to a fine art, brilliant. The boats don't look slow either, a fair bit of sail up there too...

    Canada Bob.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.