Master in Marine Survey - is it legal?

Knowledge is only valuable when it is free from misapprehensions. Thus full-time guided studies are needed!

I have experience working for 4 years in seafarers training centre, and those days I met many professional captains with great hands-on experience and diploma obtained by doing. Most of them had intuition that allowed them to make right decision, with proper portion of caution. But in-depth knowledge of phenomena was not there; say, most of them had wrong/very simplified/inaccurate concepts of stability and turning ability. The problem happens then those start surveying and 'checking' work of naval architect, now with MSc on their business card...

 

Don't worry. I'm not signing up. I've crawled enough tanks and double bottoms for two lifetimes!

 

I do not worry and I am still safe; yet they still do not sell Ph.D. online, based on tanks survey experience

 

Don't put naval architects on too high a pedestal. I can tell stories about bad designs I've had to live and work with.

 

Thanks for the idea! Phds for sale on line! Thanks!

Well, sorry for butting in. I'll be quiet now. In this thread.

 

These bad designs can be found in any industry; but think - why there is a niche for surveyors in marine industry without any engineering degree? This specially concerns small craft - those 'certified' independent surveyors with 200USD 'member certificate' from 'surveyor society' or now 'lloyd's academy'. They must understand their limitations (pre-perchase survey, etc.), but definitely they are not! I have read so many reports from them... now just refuse to discus anything unless it is official surveyor from classification society.

 

I agree. The title "surveyor" is too loosely banded about. I have never been a surveyor for hire. The tanks I inspected were in company with my chief engineer aboard our ship (various). Two sets of eyes and two brains are better than one. Somethings have to be done yourself, especially if your life and others lives, depends on it.

 

To summarize: 'Online degrees are only valid for internet forums'

 

mmm hmmm

 

A good question is ...What is a surveyor, survey ? Ive just put a boat thru survey. No problems, minor issues.

To have second look we hired a naval architect, engineer experienced with lightweight aluminum sailing yachts. He found several important defects. For instance an Out of round ss rudder shaft at the bottom bearing caused by prop wash thrust.
We are presently cutting the chainplates out of the yacht because he was not satisfied with access and inspection. Good call...the chain plates are heavily pitted on the blind side...just as he suspected.

What is a survey ? Who do you hire ? who do you trust ?

 

Last time we discussed this in the forum, marine surveying is not a degree but special training or experience. Here is a snipet from Wiki.

"Marine surveyors use many credentials, letters, and terms such as "accredited", "certified", "qualifed", "AMS", "CMS", etc. There are many ways to train to become a marine surveyor including taking correspondence courses, apprenticing, or simply opening a business. However, marine surveyors pursue their profession independently of required organizations, and there is currently no national or international licensing requirement for marine surveyors. The U.S. Coast Guard does not approve or certify marine surveyors. All association terms and initials represent training and certification by private organizations."

By practice, ship masters, naval architects with experience gets priority hiring if you look at the ads for marine surveyors. Class surveyors tend to stick to their unit as the pay is lucrative.

 

Surveyors not only use 'certified' or 'accredited', but they also often put logo of Lloyd's Register, MCA or ISO on their websites. And here it becomes confusing to potential customer! They claim they 'can check those boats to LR, MCA or ISO standards'... Well, if we design boats to standards of few classification societies - should we put their logos on our websites? Surely no.

 

Sure they do. Kind of confusing the public isn't it.

If you enroll in LR "Marine Training Services" they put the LR logo. There are institutions that trains and have companies accreditted to ISO standards. They place the ISO logo. BV I think trains surveyors and they are accreditted to conduct ISO training so I would not be surprised to see BV logo and ISO on their business card.

 

Kind of misrepresentation of facts, isn't it? How can individual can put logo of ISO or IMO? How some private surveyor not being a staff/partner of LR or BV can use their logo? I would say it is kind of scam; surveyors might shoot me

 

Don't worry I won't.

I trained (IMCA) and worked as an independent surveyor and have an ISO training and Auditors certificate but what does that make me? I am not a class surveyor so I cannot lay claim to a particular class survey nor claim I can survey boat to ISO standards.

I have met other independent surveyors bearing the class logo on their business card but beleive me, I have doubts they are true Class surveyors. There is nobody to check their claim. It is not required.

If you look at the course outline and a sample of LR training, you will find that most of what they teach is lifted out from the class rule. An NA/Boat designer who is fairly conversant with class rule have the same knowledge.