Mason Clipper

Discussion in 'Powerboats' started by AdvEndureDesign, May 3, 2016.

  1. AdvEndureDesign
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    AdvEndureDesign Junior Member

    I am currently looking to recreate a hull similar to the Mason Clipper, built by Mason Marine in NZ a few years ago. While I will try my best at doing that myself, and looking to improve on it in the end, I was wondering whether maybe someone has already done so.

    [​IMG]

    https://waitematawoodys.com/tag/mason-clipper/
     
  2. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    What is that you propose to improve on the original design?
     
  3. AdvEndureDesign
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    AdvEndureDesign Junior Member

    My current issue is that I have neither access to lines plans nor to any of the boats built, thus no measurements I can take. That way I can't say what can be improved upon at all.

    Improvement can only come in conjunction with knowing the exact trim of the boat to be designed. As the project I'm working on is a version around 30ft with at least a very similar hull I will have to adjust a few things to work with the engine, a few shenanigans to be added, and a newly designed deck house.
     
  4. gonzo
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    gonzo Senior Member

    If you are planning on enlarging the boat by maybe 60%, it is not possible to simply copy the design and make it bigger. It needs to be completely re-designed. Maybe you can keep the looks similar, but it will be hard considering the size difference. At 30 feet most boats will have some kind of cabin and a relatively lower freeboard.
     
  5. AdvEndureDesign
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    AdvEndureDesign Junior Member

    Yes, I'm aware of that. There have been versions of that hull in 36ft length, for example, and I'm sure a lot of similar designs exist - the Clippers are well known for being excellent offshore hulls, though.
     
  6. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Given the advances we've made, in the last nearly half a century since this boat was designed, why can't you draw up a modern, soft riding 30' power cruiser?
     
  7. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I've never heard of them, but looking at a picture of a 24-footer, it seems to have a reasonably steep deadrise aft. Are they strip-planked ? Seems like early sixties design. The strake lay-out is certainly a departure from the norm, as is the rounded "chine". What particular aspect of the boats appeals to you ?
     
  8. AdvEndureDesign
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    AdvEndureDesign Junior Member

    I do aim to, ultimately. Given that the client (a friend of mine) specifically asked for a hull close to the Clipper, though, I wanted to find out whether anyone had maybe already gone the mile to create such a thing.


    They do, yes.
    The boats were strip-planked first, later apparently full fibre-glass (?), first designed in 1961 as I understand it.

    As for what appeals (not to me in this case, but to my friend), it's the soft-riding offshore capabilities and the classic looks of the hull - which I suppose points to a similarly classic looking, all-new designed soft-riding offshore hull from my own drawing board ;)
     
  9. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    Perhaps the best thing is to find out why "The best boat in the world" or variations of the same design stopped production. That is not necessarily a vote against the boat as some really fine boats have suffered the same fate for various reasons not related to their value as boats. The appearance is of a somewhat dated sedan cruiser although better looking than most. Certainly far better looking than most of today's Nike running shoe offerings. Nothing really stands out in the hull design as different from many others than the soft chine. That could lead to a softer ride but it seems that the designer hedged his bet with the strakes. No one is going to be able to offer any specific information and at best only informed speculation.

    The boats are not old enough to have just completely disappeared so some must still be around. If a search for examples or owners is really a dead end, I might take that as evidence.
     
  10. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    I agree Tom, it looks like someone was keeping an eye on Hunt's efforts, but hedging their bet with a soft chine. A set of lines would be nice to see, but I think anyone with reasonable skills could do as well, if not significantly better as a deep water boat.
     
  11. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The "world's finest powerboat" blurb was certainly getting into blow-hard territory, but hey, they were from NZ ! (that should attract a bite). They are, or were, not a part of the Australian boating scene to any noticeable degree, which you'd imagine they might have been if such a great boat, just over the Tasman. I'd imagine they would lay over a lot in turns, be prone to leaning into cross-winds, and maybe not so good at staying on plane backed-off. Or that is what I'd expect from what is quoted as 24* transom deadrise and the soft chine, in the 24' version.
     
  12. AdvEndureDesign
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    AdvEndureDesign Junior Member

    Now this is getting interesting. I'm sitting here learning.

    The story with the lines is that they do all exist but Tony Mason's heirs are guarding them and would never sell them as Tony himself did not sell plans alone, only boats. Well, damn.

    The boats all do still exist, but not anywhere near me. They stopped production when Tony Mason decided that it was time to (or maybe when time decided for Tony to stop, I'd have to read up on that).
     
  13. Easy Rider
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    Easy Rider Senior Member

    Wasn't the offshore powerboat race that Hunt's 31' boat Moppie badly beat all commers .... in 1961?

    The deep V craze apparently went all the way to the bottom of the globe almost instantly. Interesting.

    Out with the old .. in with the new. It's a well known song on this forum. Has a lot of merit though as I think of going forth w an old car today. But you can only beat the old stuff down so far as they will always be as good as they were when they were created. And the early Bertram boats command high prices these days.

    With the car it's the automotive enviroment that is out of place and not compatible ... not so much the car itself. Water doesn't change though and the boat is much less dependent on it's changed environment. A 1956 boat would be about as useable now as it was in 1956. So why are old designs put down so much on this forum?
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    The boat obviously had its merits, it has a raked stem and more cutaway forefoot, which was before its time, really, it looks pretty full in the forward waterlines, whether that caused a little more 'bog' than desirable, I don't know, but it looks like a broach-free design, and not likely too 'wet' of a boat.
     

  15. PAR
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    That era saw a lot of innovation. Hunt and others literally redefined the way powerboat hull forms are shaped. Most of these discoveries are still employed in modern design, though with many, newer refinements.

    Using the old car analogy, what about a 1956 anything would you want, besides the styling? Maybe the vague resemblance of brakes, as you pull up on the steering wheel and stomp, as hard as you can on the brake pedal, trying to stop quickly? Possibly you miss bouncing your head off an unpadded, all steel dashboard in a crash, because airbags are so overrated. Anti Lock brakes aren't all they're cracked up to be, but this is all fodder, compaired to the realities of ownership of a 1956 anything.

    Maybe you don't remember, but I do. New plugs, rotor and cap every 10K miles, a valve job every 30K miles, countless sets of points, condensers, plug wires, in the typical 100K life span, before the engine was blowing as much oil out it's exhaust pipe, as it was fuel in the tank. Now, you have none of this and can drive the car without even an oil change for 100K miles and it'll still be running fine. 300K miles out of a first generation SBC just wasn't conceivable, but now, even the venerable SBC with a Vortec package, this is actually possible (I own one). Reliability has soared, mechanical breakdowns are fairly rare. I've put 6 sets of tires on a Suburban, since it was new and I've never had a flat. I've had a slow leak on a couple of occasions, one the result of a drywall screw, the other a leaking schrader valve. My point, even tires are far superior than they used to be. I know you're old enough to remember driving along when flop, flop, curfrigging-flop, came from one of the wheel wells and you were glad, your spare was up and the jack worked. Don't get me wrong, I love old iron, but damn, I'll live with new, just so I don't have to crawl under the damn thing every other Saturday morning to fix something or another.

    Boats aren't quite as significantly changed as cars, but there are big advances we've made. Look at the America's Cup. In 1958, the first of the 12 meter rule boats competed and 10 knots was plowing a bow wave from hell, but they looked good and in their day had many innovations. Compared to the 50 MPH blasts the last set of America's Cup competitors on San Francisco Bay achieved, pretty feeble comparatively.

    Powerboats have seen similar advances, but some of the most notable are the humpless transition from displacement to full plane speeds. No significant bow rise, then settling, they just trim out and scoot. No more tripping, much more precise handling, efficient and very responsive steering. In 1956, you had a dinky outboard, usually two on a transom, because they were so unreliable, you needed a spare, just to get you home when the main engine took a crap. Or better yet, was a gas inboard, without spark arrestors, so blowing yourself up was a real possibility. Maybe you like backing and filling in a contrary wind and current, but I'll take an outdrive and pull right on in the first try.

    I'm not picking on you Eric. I know you remember all the good and bad from the "good 'ol days", but sometimes we have to remind ourselves how bad, the good old days actually were. BTW, you only had 2 TV stations to watch (black and white of course), maybe 3 if you could get one of the kids, to hold the rabbit ears just right. You probably could hear your neighbor talking to their mother in law on your phone, while you tried to talk to your wife on your phone. Air conditioning was something you'd heard about, but have yet to experience and the Mercury space program was pie in the sky stuff for the sci fi movies of the day. Yeah man, I'll take the new fangled crap any day, though I'll always love the styling of the good 'ol days, particularly in my other half.
     
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