Marinizing Small Industrial Diesels

Discussion in 'DIY Marinizing' started by Diesel Dan, Sep 23, 2004.

  1. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "Rescue Minor"

    Is this an Alden,New Jersey Sea Bright skiff?

    FF
     
  2. sal's Dad
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: New England

    sal's Dad Atkin/Bolger fan

    Rescue Minor is a 1940's Billy Atkin design - 20'x6'x6", designed for 15-20 mph on 20hp. http://www.boat-links.com/Atkinco/Utilities/RescueMinor.html

    The hull is evolved from the "Sea Bright skiffs" of the New Jersey beaches, with a wide flat keel, with the prop projecting from the aft end, completely protected by the keel. Atkin took this a step further, so the entire after underbody is a tunnel, the prop half out of the water at rest.

    If/when I find a better transmission, I'll put the 1.9:1 up for sale.
    Sal's Dad
     
  3. FAST FRED
    Joined: Oct 2002
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    Location: Conn in summers , Ortona FL in winter , with big d

    FAST FRED Senior Member

    Atkin seemed to stop at 20 -25ft or so.

    Do you know of any design that has this bottom in 35ft or so?

    A look in the Power boats section will point to a thread.

    FF
     
  4. sal's Dad
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    sal's Dad Atkin/Bolger fan

    There are at least two Atkin Tunnel Sterns in the 35' range: River Belle, and one which is not in the catalogue, but was built a few years ago by Alex Hadden (see his advertisement in MAIB).

    Dave Gerr has designed larger, heavier, and slower tunnel stern cruisers; a few are featured on his website. Also, take a look at Carlson's Alligator http://www.carlsondesign.com/alligator.html .
    Sal's Dad
     
  5. Claus Riepe
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Germany

    Claus Riepe Junior Member

    Sorry to interrupt.

    With regards to the initial subject of this thread:

    I have a 9.5 hp aircooled industrial Kubota in one boat. It is a petrol engine, but the following observations would apply also for the range of small Kubota Diesels.:
    It is a complete success. Inexpensive, quiet, incredibly lightweight. No marinization was needed in my case. The exhaust piping is flanged directly onto the silencer/exhaust of the engine. The exhaust piping is done from copper heating pipes, 1 1/2" resp. 1". The exhaust is dry, i.e. uncooled.
    The system is in an open boat on salt water. Sure, the mild steel parts do rust a good bit since day 1, but ever sincethe engine itself is sound, works without fail or any renewed parts for four years now. Engine comes complete with tank, electric starter, small charger coil. Engine is a robust commodity used mostly for generators. Costs new around US$ 700.00, available almost anywhere. Very simple to install too.

    The PTO is on the camshaft of the engine, so it is already 2:1 reduced.
    Directly attached, i.e without any -reversing- gearbox, is a variable pitch propellor system, which in addition allows the propellor blades to be flattenend into a 'sail' position, no drag.

    The complete system engine+shaft+propellor weighs around 30kgs, with the centre of gravity is almost midships and very low in the hull.

    OK, they rust, but what the heck, the main rusting parts, the mild steel silencer and exhaust parts can be replaced for very little money and with little effort.

    Hope this helps.
    C.
     
  6. sal's Dad
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: New England

    sal's Dad Atkin/Bolger fan

    "It is a petrol engine...
    ... No marinization was needed in my case"

    I would be very concerned about the fire hazard in a petrol (that's gasoline, right?) installation you describe.

    There have been a number of discussions and warnings here about the danger of using non-marine fuel and electrical systems in a boat. In an auto, or generator, any fuel spills ar dissipated relatively harmlessley on the ground. In a boat, spills and fumes stay in close proximity to the electrical system, and sparks.

    Please be careful!


    "Sorry to interrupt..."
    No problem ( I'm rarely offended by a return to the original topic ;-)

    Sal's Dad
     
  7. Claus Riepe
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    Claus Riepe Junior Member

    As I said, it is an open boat. All the ventilation one may like or dislike, all the time. The boat was originally equipped with a gasoline inboard engine too. Never any probs. Boat is over 30 years now.

    Anyway, I am not at all advocating industrial gasoline engines instead of industrial Diesel engines, I just wanted to point out that it is surprisingly little fuss to put small industrial engines into boats. There is also a range of suitable aircooled small industrial Kubota Diesels and I could have taken one of those as well, except they are heavier, bigger, noisier and more expensive.

    Industrial engines can work on boats.

    C.
     
  8. Busman1965
    Joined: Jun 2007
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    Location: Florida/Bahamas

    Busman1965 Junior Member

    Marinizing a Industrial diesel

    You can skip the gearbox alltogether, and use a direct drive, with a Kitchen Rudder". This is a clamshell type rudder, that opens and closes, to vary the speed, and allow reverse, and even a neutral of sorts. They are amazing devices to operate, and work perfectly. I have been aboard a boat with one of these rudders, and it was amazing, wide open forward to wide open reverse without touching the trottle! They are alttile hard to build, but not real expensive. Do a internet search, for kitchen rudder, and you can see a couple of different examples. With this rudder, a dry stack exhaust, and an electric cooling water pump, you would not need any marinization to your engine, other than a heat exchanger, if you wanted freshwater cooling.!
     
  9. CDK
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    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Don't know about availability in the US, but in Europa there are Chinese diesels on the market. Exact copies of a Honda 10 HP, but somewhat cheaper. I bought mine thru Ebay a couple of years ago and paid the equivalent of $ 400 for a brand new engine (electric starter) in a frame and with an attached waterpump that I threw away. I use it to power a 5 KV generator.
     
  10. Claus Riepe
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    Claus Riepe Junior Member

    We had been looking at the chinese Diesels, and could have got them for an even lower price than you indicated, if we would have gotten together an order for 10 pcs. .
    However, in the end we resisted, for two reasons.
    We could not get information on the technical specs of the camshaft PTO, how much axial force onto it would be OK.
    Secondly, such Diesels require a much more sophisticated engine foundation in the boat than their petrol peers, with rubber shock absorbing elements, flexible elements in the exhaust line, and flexible coupling elements between engine and driveshaft.
    On the other side, petrol engines run so smooth they can be bolted directly onto a sturdy marine plywood foundation, not requiring shock absorbers anywhere.

    Anyway, I am sure there are today chinese engines available that would fit the requirements without probs, only we were early adopters and were still a bit cautious.
    C.
     
  11. CDK
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    CDK retired engineer

    The Chinese have a different view on vibration: they simply screw the engine on a tube frame without any rubber parts at all and let the thin walled tubes absorb the energy.
    The engine itself behaves like any other 1-cyl. diesel, Honda, Ruggerini, Kubota, Hatz etc. If you see and hear it running at 3000 rpm you can't believe it has any life expectancy at all....
     
  12. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Topsham, Vermont

    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Chinese Putt-Putts

    Here in China, boats (like the one in my sig, above) putt-putt past here at about 1000 to 1500 RPM I'd guess. They're obviously dry exhaust. Some even have mufflers... There are 40+ of them in the harbor here and I look them over every day when they come back in. I've yet to see any repairs, (or even any maintenance). But my Mandarin isn't good enough to ask any questions, yet!

    More photos at http://www.terryking.us/photoalbum/main.php?g2_itemId=3197

    Here's a nice engine I'm thinking of using: http://www.yangdong.com/english/datu/YSAD380G.html
    and I do have the advantage of being able to get one at the factory, I think...
     
  13. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Being that close to the source, you are much better informed than I am.
    I have no clue as to who manufactures these small diesels. Mine came with a decall from the Austrian company that wanted to trade diesel powered water pumps, ordered some containers full and than discovered the market wasn't large enough so they used Ebay to dump them.
    In the plastic bag with 2 wrenches, a sxcrewdriver and a bottle of oil there was a tiny piece of (rice?)paper with a poorly printed Chinese-english messages that if I ever needed any spares I could order them for the Honda so-and-so. No name, no nameplate on the engine.
    I took the liberty of changing the oil after 25 hours, but while doing so I noticed it was almost as clean as when it went in. Sometimes I try to be original, but some habits are deeply rooted.
    Your 3 cyl. watercooled machine looks quit sophisticated. Does it resemble a model from Yanmar or is it really designed from scratch?
     
  14. MMNet SEA
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Thailand

    MMNet SEA Junior Member

    The Photo of the engine looked like it had 4 injector pipes from the pump -
    the spec said 3 cyl. ???
     

  15. TerryKing
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    Location: Topsham, Vermont

    TerryKing On The Water SOON

    Yes, their website uses the same photo for all the engine models...
     
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