Marinising of Diesel Engine

Discussion in 'Diesel Engines' started by middlemarinedub, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. middlemarinedub
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Location: London, UK

    middlemarinedub Captain Vadimo

    Hello everyone,

    I'm having a concern regarding "marinising" of the railway engine to be used on a tug vessel.
    What would be the minimum required level of "marinising" for such engine?

    I would mention the following major steps:
    1. Inspecting and modernizing (if required) the sump tank depth to allow the lubrication oil work efficiently at
      the bigger angles of trim and heel.
    2. Investigation a possibility of installation the sea water cooling system. And, if possible, installing such system.
    What in your opinion would you add to these steps?

    Captain Vadimo
     
  2. KeithO
    Joined: Jul 2019
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    Location: Michigan

    KeithO Senior Member

    Is the engine in the boat yet or not ? The first thing I would do is to sandblast anything I could and paint it with zinc rich primer, followed by epoxy primer and top coat. One wants to fight corrosion as much as possible with all means possible and normal engine paint is pretty useless in a marine application. If parts are aluminum, then a different primer would be called for. Any painting is usually more difficult or even impossible once installed.

    I would seriously look into some sort of keel cooling system that completely eliminates salt water and the raw water pump.

    What exhaust arrangement will be used and is a turbocharger involved ? Assuming the exhaust is quite large, it can be tricky reducing heat rejection into the engine room to a safe level when the engine itself already puts a lot of heat into the environment. Careful thought would have to be put into placement of oil and fuel filters, the means for exchanging the fluids and where to keep on hand new oil,filters etc so that it is not a pain to do maintenance.

    Sounds like a major undertaking that few people would have experience with.....
     
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  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Is this a new boat? In that case that old engine will not comply with emissions. Otherwise, first make sure that the engine fits the space available.
     
  5. middlemarinedub
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Location: London, UK

    middlemarinedub Captain Vadimo

    Hi everyone.
    Basically, one of my clients just called me and shared some info that they been proposed to buy a barely used engine (either MAN 2862 L634 or Scania DC16 074A) for their tug that is currently on refit.
    The info on Scania DC16 074A engine can be found here:
    https://www.scania.com/content/dam/.../engines/pdf/specs/industry/DC1674A_478kW.pdf
    (Info on MAN 2862 L634 is here: https://www.engines.man.eu/man/medi...es/off_road/OffRoad_Rail_de_en_180821_web.pdf).
    As they did not take a decision yet, they would need a proper advise on the decision.
    Currently the engine they have installed on a tug is MAN 2862 (LE 431): https://www.engines.man.eu/man/medi...gines/marine/Marine_Commercial_190415_web.pdf
    For the client it seems that the proposed engine is lighter for approx. 300 kg and has a slightly more power. They confirmed that there is enough space in the engine room to perform replacement and marinising.
    My first advice, of course, was that the engine will need to be marinised and it will, most probably, ease all the weight difference available.
    Although, I would like to evaluate all the risks and understand steps needed to marinise that engine.

    You kind support will be highly appreciated.

    Captain Vadimo
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2020
  6. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    You (or your client) should call MAN. The block should be the same between what is now installed and the rail version. Depending on what's wrong with the old engine you could use the marine parts from it on the one configured for rail. But a detailed cost analysis is needed to see what is more cost effective, repairing the old or marinising the new.
     
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  7. middlemarinedub
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Location: London, UK

    middlemarinedub Captain Vadimo

  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Are they suppose to comply with UK or EU emission standards?
     
  9. Lepke
    Joined: Sep 2015
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    Location: Oregon to Alaska

    Lepke Junior Member

    If the engine has a marine version and old enough for some to have been scrapped, you might find marine components where they scrap ships and boats. One in Europe is: Ship Recycling - Fornaes Denmark http://www.fornaes.dk/index.php
    At the least you need heat exchangers for the coolant and oil, raw water pump and should have a marine exhaust manifold. You also need a heat exchanger for the gear oil. I owned big tugs and you need to keep the engine room temperature down. The hotter it is, the less efficient the engine. So all the exhaust and turbo needs insulating jackets.
     
  10. middlemarinedub
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Location: London, UK

    middlemarinedub Captain Vadimo

    EU Emission regulations will be applied.
     
  11. gonzo
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    Adding emission controls and modifying the computer to comply, and then getting certified will cost you more than buying an engine that is already certified for EU standards.
     
  12. Rumars
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    Location: Germany

    Rumars Senior Member

    Captain Vadimo, I really don't know what you want to hear. Most engines in this size class are multiple use and the manufacturers can supply or direct you to all the components needed for marine, rail or generator installation. You don't need to work out the marinising by yourself, all standard scenarios are on file and for unusual cases there are authorized specialists.
    The base engine price is the least concern, the needed parts for a specific application and the needed labour are the important things. In case of a used engine there is also the insurance company who has a word to say, maybe they approve the install but only if the factory or their official agent does the work or warrants the installation. Then emissions, ballasting, etc. depending on what the certification or national authority wants to see when you modify the original configuration. That's why I said your client needs a proper cost analysis for repairing/rebuilding the current setup vs. new/used engine of the same or different type. If you are the one to do the work that's what you should tell the client. The only question I see is do you charge the client money for such a study or you do it for free. That is a business decision only you can take.
     
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  13. gonzo
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The worst case scenario is that an engine that can't comply with emissions is installed, and the boat can't get registered. In that case Captain Vladimo may end up with the cost of all the parts and labor, plus a lawsuit.
     
  14. middlemarinedub
    Joined: Jun 2015
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    Location: London, UK

    middlemarinedub Captain Vadimo

    Hi everyone,

    I appreciate everyones effort in discussing this topic.
    The risks of marinising the non-marine engine are basically known and understood from my side.
    I simply wanted to hear opinion of others and see if there is some aspect that I have missed/didn't see.

    In fact, I agree that in most of cases buying the marine engine will lead to less trouble and absence of unpredictable
    situations, which may cost a bunch and a little cart of problems.
     

  15. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The situation is completely predictable. A brief research of the cost of parts and the cost of certifying and single engine for emissions will illustrate it.
     
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