marine navigation light problems

Discussion in 'OnBoard Electronics & Controls' started by ellawendy, Apr 4, 2011.

  1. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Ellawendy,
    I don't know your level of electronics. Let me guide you through it.

    IF the globes are all on one side to the Plus 24 Volt:

    The wire coming from the 1N4007 diode is soldered to the globe/light-switch it is coming from the Anode of the 1N4007 - The cathode (white ring) is soldered to the 4700 Ohm resistor - the other side of the resistor to the Anode of the LED ( longest leg) the cathode (shortest leg) is soldered to the toggle switch (all 13 cathoses of the LED) the other side of the toggle switch is soldered to Mass/Ground/Earth. You could use a shrink sleeve to cover the resistor and diode. if you don't want to make a printed circuit board.
    .

    IF the globes are all on one side to the Mass/Ground/Earth:

    The wire coming from the 1N4007 diode is soldered to the globe/light-switch it is coming from the Cathode (white ring) of the 1N4007 - The Anode is soldered to the 4700 Ohm resistor - the other side of the resistor to the Cathode of the LED ( shortest leg) the Anode (longest leg) is soldered to the toggle switch (all 13 Anodes of the LED) the other side of the toggle switch is soldered to Plus 24 Volt. You could use a shrink sleeve to cover the resistor and diode, if you don't want to make a printed circuit board.


    The offer is still standing
    Bert
     
  2. ellawendy
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    Location: Egypt

    ellawendy Junior Member

    first thank you for your reply, the problem is that i am designing the system and not fixing an old one i am the one who is responsible for initiating it and am free to do it by any way so if you could tell me what is the easiest way and if you have a drawing i'll be thankful if you sent it to this mail
    ellawendy@hotmail.com
    thank you again
     
  3. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Ellawendy,

    Not a problem. But before I e-mail you a drawing, I need to know: are the globes on the one side all to earth/mass/ground or to the 24 Volt line. ?
    Bert
     
  4. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    or if you want to be really crude a few turns of wire around a reed relay will close the contacts if there is current flow....these are a few $$$ a dozen ...you only need the glass bit in the centre ( the actual reed ) if it comes with a coil and 10 turns of 22 gauge wire . as used in ;many car flasher units to tell you the bulb has gone ..QED
     
  5. CDK
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Adriatic sea

    CDK retired engineer

    Ellawendy, here is a simple solution.
    Use the output to activate a LED (with the proper resistor), 24V relay or small 24V bulb.
    The .5 Ohms resistor will dissipate 2 Watts with the bulbs you specified, so give them a little space.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Ellawendy, I had a second thought.
    I don't know for who and what you are designing this system for, but one day, very soon in the future, your customer will exchange a 1,66 Ampere 40 watt globe to replace it for an LED globe, using between 40 milli Ampere and 300 milli Ampere.
    1.66 Ampere x 13 globes = 21,5 Ampere and that for energy x a number of hours per day is a lot of energy gone to waste.
    Non of all our suggested systems will work then anymore.
    Except: For what CDK and I myself suggested a transistor which has a base resistor which can handle an input, ranging the globe current from 20 mA to 2 Ampere.
    Although the solution from Pistnbroke is a noble one, but should not to be used in modern new designs.
    Your various drawings with solutions have been e-mailed to you. With my recommendations what to use.
    Bert
     
  7. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    System A , Globes to plus 24 Volt.
    Advantage:simple, will work for 30 years +
    Disadvantage: customer has to make the link to be able to use LED globes

    System B, Globes to ground.
    same advantage/disadvantage as system A

    System C, Globes to ground
    Advantage , will work with any globe and 30 years +
    Disadvantage, needs a Printed circuit board.

    System D, Globes to plus 24 Volt.
    Same advantage and disadvantage as system C.

    System E, Globes either to ground or + 24 Volt.
    Advantage: simple. Provided turns are properly selected any globe/LED can be used.
    Disadvantage: magneto resistors need to be carrefull selected. One could do it with a magneto sensor (transistor), more components.

    I would go for system C or D.

    Sorry, the system does not allow me to post the *.jpg files
    Bert
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  8. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi CDK, Good morning.
    The disadvantage of using a resistor in series with the mainswitch and globe, is, that he first have to switch the light on, before he can see whether the globe is faulty.2) I personnaly like to stay away from relays 3) We have to start thinking about LED lights/globes and their advantages and disadvantages.

    I do not think Ellawendy has the technical knowledge to re-design a circuit, otherwise he would not have asked the forum. Any suggestions for the resistor value for your circuit, if LED globes are used. ?

    Pistnbroke, I have used some 500 reedrelays from various manufacturers and voltages, sometimes the contacts were sticking after 1 or 2 years.
    Bert
     
  9. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Should Ellawendy specify that at all times he must be informed that a globe or a LED globe is gone on the blink, he can only use Pstnbloke, CDK or my magnetic resistor/sensor solution. i.e. if the yacht is on automatic and the crew sleeps.

    However we know too little about his design criteria and thus we have to guess. I personally have never sailed while everybody is sleeping, we always had a skipper at the rudder, thus an LED display on the panel is good enough for me. The crew can see at any time, daylight, or at night, by manipulating the switches. But if he insist on an alarm, when the globe/LED globe has packed up only, I would be inclined to go for magnetic sensors /resistors. It is modern, one can design from low to high current, thus covering any faulty globe what must be replaced in any harbour during a cruise. Screening will be essential. One would not like to have other wires interfering.
    Bert
     
  10. pistnbroke
    Joined: Jan 2009
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    Location: Noosa.Australia where god kissed the earth.

    pistnbroke I try

    Why not go for leds to start with ...so at 24v he will need dropper resitors and therefore can use the reed relay coil as part of that resistance .... opto isolators could be brought into the circuit to sound an alarm .....
     
  11. BertKu
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    BertKu Senior Member

    Indeed, it could be done, but again we don't know about his specifications. He is on Hotmail and answer only once in a little while. One must however be careful that it may latch the reed-relay **) . Again, this could be an advantage, as the latching position means, one has to force the LED to go off (and be informed) by having a toggle switch in line with the supply voltage to the reed-relays. But I personally have bad experience with reed-relays. Maybe I have been unlucky.
    Bert

    **) if he uses your solution with the coil as the resistor to the LED.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2011
  12. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    If one draw the circuitery for 13 globes, and add the 13 reed-relays with the coil used as dropping resistor. I would in that case use ONE op-amp, which measures the current from 1 to 13 LED's. Just having 1 LED on, means the current from 1 LED will trigger the op-amp and then the buzzer, hooter etc.

    Pstnbroke , you would indeed have the best and simple system created. But personnaly I would not use reed-relays, but magneto sensors or resistors.
    Bert
     
  13. BertKu
    Joined: May 2009
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    Location: South Africa Little Brak River

    BertKu Senior Member

    Hi Ellawendy,

    I have also posted the circuitdiagrams on the Galary/personal Gallery. In case Hotmail blocks the jpeg file. I am not able to attach it to this/a thread, but can post it on the Gallery.
    Bert
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2011
  14. ellawendy
    Joined: Mar 2011
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    ellawendy Junior Member

    thaaaaaaaaank you guys really you made my day, know i have lot's of ideas and i feal that am the one who is not helping you :)
    so let me take some time to collect more informations about the system and check your solutions and am sure that i'll ask you again if any help is needed

    thank you again for your effort
     
    1 person likes this.

  15. DianneB
    Joined: Jan 2010
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    Location: Manitoba

    DianneB Junior Member

    Of course in a critical application it is not current through the lamp that is important but light output which is why high-assurance applications actually use a photo sensor within the field of the lamp to measure the actual illumination intensity. The sensor circuit may give a simple go/no-go output (alarm) or a direct analogue reading of the light level.
     
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