Marine Gas Turbines

Discussion in 'Propulsion' started by peter fisher, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. peter fisher
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    peter fisher Junior Member

    Hi

    I have had a go at this a few times and failed, so here we go again. My name is Pete Fisher resident in the UK, I am part of a team that have been given a task as part of a University Course to study Material Sciences. I have a task of designing a powerplant and drive system for a Fast Patrol Boat. I am trying to locate on the Web sites that will help me understand Marine Gas Turbines for small Craft (40/50 feet) and Water Jet propulsion systems, ideally if this combination has ever been designed and implemented. Any of you chaps got any good Web sites you can point me at or even tell me what I am considering is unfeasible.

    Regards
    Pete
     
  2. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    At a very basic level, take a look at http://travel.howstuffworks.com/turbine.htm
    It only covers turbines for planes, but I believe the guts are essentially the same...

    Uffu Fox long ago advocated the use of turines in even quite small craft - as small as 25 ft - and there is some good info in his Seamanlike sense in powerboats. Somewhat outdated, but worthy of a look nonetheless
     
  3. yipster
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    yipster designer

    http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/ngnsim.html
    if it is not of help it may be fun to play with :D

    found good links using the search button above http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=652&highlight=turbine
    and http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=449&highlight=turbine
    and what a beauty this "little" ob is. link went but like more specs, roll's eh?
    [​IMG]
    Engine: Allison Rolls Royce 250 Gas Turbine
    Power: 320 hp @ 52,000 rpm
    Output RPM: 6,000 rpm
    Torque: 425 ft lbs @ 2,000 rpm
    Compressor speed: 54,000 rpm
    Fuel: Diesel, Kerosene, Jet A
    Lubrication: Dry-sump/ 3.5 quarts turbine oil
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2004
  4. Ken Baker
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    Ken Baker New Member

    Peter,

    Try contacting some of the maritime schools/colleges. I know Maine Maritime Academy in the US teaches operations courses on gas turbines so maybe some of the UK ones do as well. They may not be able to help with design info but maybe can point you in the right direction.

    Good luck.

    Ken
     
  5. ClarkT
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    ClarkT Senior Member

    Search around for a paper by Dean Schleicher or Cardrock about Turbine installation in a Navy test boat. I'm pretty sure it was published by SNAME in the late 1990's.
     
  6. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Peter;

    Frank Mulder Mulder Design is the expert on using gas turbines in high-speed yachts. Also Gary Grant in the USA, Gary Grant has done some work with smaller gas turbines. I believe the Finish Masmar 75J is aimed at just the type project you are looking at. The only place I can think of where gas turbines and waterjets are currently used is in high-speed cat passanger ferries in the far east. These are using Textron Lycoming turbines. Allison Gas Turbine is or was into some marine installations. Another name is Allen Industries Inc in Seattle, specialist in gas turbines starting with unlimited hydroplanes. I have an old Boating article on a Fountain 42' with a pair of RR Gnome H-1000s running through Mercruiser drives. Destriero was designed by Donald Blount, contact his office for info, three GE LM 1600s, almost 50,000 HP.

    Good luck, Tad
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2004
  7. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    I too have an old article, from "Motorboat & Yachting" - this ones about a cat built by Howard Arneson, powered I think form memory by a turbine from a bell helicopter driving thru one of his surface drives....
     
  8. yipster
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    yipster designer

    Tad, i have some articles by Frank Mulder, good to bring him up but you left the "www" out, its: http://www.mulderdesign.nl/
    as said before i also liked your writings, great stuff but where did it go?
     
  9. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Thanks Yip;

    I fixed the links, but see I should have looked at the links further up the thread before jumping in. Small (relatively) gas turbines coupled to waterjets seems to be a rarity? I have no idea why, but look forward to finding out! Is it gear train problems, lack of availability, who knows?

    So many interesting projects, and so little time.

    I lost my previous site through foolishness on my part, but I will shortly have two new sites up and running. If you want a job done, get busy, so I'm learning html and building my own. Also I want to support the .ca registry, so it's to be tadroberts.ca and passagemakerlite.com I'll have something up there shortly.


    Tad
     
  10. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    Also look in Peter du Cane's book "High Speed Small Craft". Lots and LOTS of good info in there, both turbine and waterjet.

    Steve
     
  11. Corpus Skipper
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    Corpus Skipper Hopeless Boataholic

    This is where your "marine" gas turbines will all be from, due to light weight. Avco-Lycoming T40-B engines are used by the Navy in LCACs (Landing Craft, Air Cushion). Larger ships are powered by General Electric LM (Land/Marine) 2500s, with Allison 501-K17/K34s for generation. The now decommissioned PHMs (hydrofoils) also used the LM 2500. None used jet propulsion, except for the PHMs diesel auxiliary engines for hull-born use (funny, huh?). Excellent propulsion choice, very reliable, but WAY expensive!!! :D Direct drive would be more efficient, but if draft is a concern, jet drive would be possible. These engines (except for the LM 2500) have a PTO on the compressor end and can easily be coupled to the drive system of your choice. By the way, I was a Navy Gas Turbine Systems Technician, so this info. is all good. Good luck!
     
  12. peter fisher
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    peter fisher Junior Member


    Thanks for the reply, I have had a great response and some good advice.
    thanks
    pete
     
  13. peter fisher
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    peter fisher Junior Member


    Will

    Thanks for the response.
    pete
     
  14. peter fisher
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    peter fisher Junior Member

    Hi thanks for the input, this all makes great reading and helps.
    pete
     

  15. peter fisher
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    peter fisher Junior Member

    Ken

    Thanks for the input
    cheers pete
     
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