Manie's TEN

Discussion in 'Boatbuilding' started by Manie B, Sep 15, 2014.

  1. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
    Posts: 2,036
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Well folks it's all official now. I have started building my "ten" :)

    Many people thinks it's crazy, but many more people love the idea and would probably do it themselves if they could. The idea of sailing long distances in a ten foot (3m) micro yacht will only appeal to the very adventurous and people that are fascinated by extreme sports and challenges.

    You can also see a new blog dedicated to this project.

    We have also created a dedicated site for this challenge, called SaToSa which stands for "South Africa To South Africa" the concept being that we will do something similar to the Jester Challenge, but for micro yachts. We believe that a race around the world in a micro yacht is definitely do-able and it is simply a matter of time before somebody actually goes and does it.

    Sven Yrvind is obviously the master guru in this field and we applaud the good work he does. Roger Taylor has done some fantastic sailing and of course Webb Chiles is at sea at the moment showing us how it's done! And as always the help and support that I received from Wynand is tops!

    I will post regular updates and pictures and videos of the build. Please go to the different sites - like us - join us - follow us - support us - WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT PLEASE !!!

    https://www.facebook.com/Satosamicroyachts?ref=hl

    http://maniehjbotha.wordpress.com/

    https://www.youtube.com/user/maniebotha1?feature=mhee

    http://compaxboats.wordpress.com/
     

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  2. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "South Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    Hi Manie,

    In one way you have an advantage, if you were as tall as me, you would have been looking at something larger than a ten. Try wearing shoes a few sizes too small... it bloody hurts !

    I read the article on your inspiration, you almost had me starting something here :D I may still... you know how unpredictable and responsible boat builders can be ;)

    I know I'm always pestering you about a multi, but if the mono thing works for you, then that is what will work for you. GO FOR IT !
     
  3. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Hier kom 'n groot ding...:cool:
     
  4. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "South Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    Ja ! 10" (hoe skryf mens "voet" nou weer ?) :p

    So if your mono is "well hung" with a big keel it's going to keep the mast up, right ?
     
  5. DriesLaas
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: South Africa

    DriesLaas Weekend Warrior

    Jis Manie, alweer aan die gang. Ek dink jy sweet al sp 106 hardener. Daai skuitjie lyk oulik, foeitog. Kom gooi die ding nou hier in die baai in die panie.
     
  6. DriesLaas
    Joined: Aug 2009
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    Location: South Africa

    DriesLaas Weekend Warrior

    Hey Manie.
    I am not going to be a naysayer, but I feel it is my duty to ask some questions. As a good friend who have not had the opportunity to sail FARGO yet.
    I buy everything about stability curves etc. My big problem is the following: Even a relatively small wave will turn your ten over completely. No argument about that. Even more so precisely because it has high righting moment. So what happens when your rig is slammed into the surface of the water at some metres per second, by a wave travelling say fifteen knots? How can one determine the loads generated on the rig, and design with full confidence against failure? Once failure occurs you are well and truly at the mercy of the old *****, who WILL do her best to kill you. I swear I think she takes it personally, and is vindictive.
    Are there guidelines to design for instance the sizing of the standing rigging, and mast stifnesses (fore-aft and sideways) for the loads one will encounter during a complete knock-down?

    The other question, is more trivial: How are you going to stay warm in the south atlantic? That hull had better contain some insulation, it is a very small volume with a large exposed area.
     
  7. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Good question Dries. That small interior will be a ***** with condensation forming from it's one man crew exhaling. Much like the Amazon rain forest:eek:

    But knowing Manie, he will have a way around it. :cool:
     
  8. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Dries the information regarding the freestanding mast comes from a vast library of documentation published by the "Junk Rig Association" and correspondence with them.

    http://www.junkrigassociation.org/

    So no problems with making the freestanding mast strong enough.
    I have had HUGE success with a Sled Kite that I have developed for KAP = Kite Aerial Photography and I am working on a kite as a backup means of propulsion. My KAP videos will be published soon on YouTube.

    The hull is a double skin hull. The inner skin which you will see going on in the next couple of weeks is 4mm marine ply, this will be glassed inside and outside. Then follows a 50mm layer of foam that serves as floatation and insulation. Then over this is the outer skin of 4mm ply, which will be glassed with a layer of Aramid (Kevlar) and a layer of glass. All windows will be double glassed laminated glass as I have on Fargo.

    In the rear transom bulkhead will be 2 small extractor fans, one is backup, which will suck the air out of the boat and introduce new fresh air inside via a filter. A huge problem on a small boat is condensation and Dorade vents need some kind of mechanical backup. A human breathing expels approx. 0.5 litres of water during the night whilst sleeping and if you want to keep the boat dry inside you have to get the exhaled air out of the boat. I have been in Fargo at minus 5 degrees Celsius and the cool air coming in is not half the problem of the condensation. Fargo is not even insulated.

    Keep in mind that this boat will be thoroughly tested before any long trip gets undertaken.

    :D Keep the questions coming ;)
     
  9. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "South Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    No it won't, the Sondor marine foam does not form condensation and it could be desirable to have if you get knocked around in rough water. It also isolates temperature and sound and does not absorb water.
    If Manie manufactures his interior furniture with it it will also add to buoyancy, and be soft to the touch. It glues well and can be worked easily with most tools.
     
  10. daiquiri
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Italy (Garda Lake) and Croatia (Istria)

    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Boy, this is a bold project! Good luck! :)

    I was looking at the results from the Daft Logic distance calculator: http://www.daftlogic.com/projects-google-maps-distance-calculator.htm - some 12000 nm for a shortest (and the coldest) route, using the westerlies and the antarctic circumpolar current (0.5 kts on average, to be added to the boat speed). In a 10-foot boat it means a minimum of 2700 hours (approx. 110 days) of navigation, assuming the most favorable winds.

    Makes me go insane even just thinking of it... :D

    One question: where does one put the food provisions for 110 days of travel inside a 10 ft boat? :confused:
     

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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2014
  11. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "South Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    Manie, I don't agree with the induction cooker, I think there may be better ways to prepare food, that cooker plus an inverter is going to be a power killer. Gas for one may be a better option and it can be used to warm water for various applications also, even to heat the whiskey. Oh sht ! Where are you going to keep THAT ! Better stick to rum, it's better suited for on the water.

    Food for 110 days.... mmmm. After 7 you're going to be sick of noodle soup.
    Biltong sealed in plastic with oxygen removers will provide for protein. Dried fruit and vegies is also an option.

    Apart from the food challange, water is the biggest challange. In moderate conditions you have to work on a minimum of 2L per day for drinking... that's 200L. Else you have to have something that is easy and VERY reliable to filter sea water into drinking water... AND have a backup one as well.

    If you have sat comms we can always e-mail you pictures of some nice food...
     
  12. Manie B
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: Pretoria South Africa

    Manie B Senior Member

    Guys thanks for the questions, because obviously many people think about the same problems and I would like to think that I have done my home work properly and that I am able to answer the questions as they get thrown at me ;)

    Ok first the food storage for a long trip.
    I took the longer route and calculated at 16 000 nm to be on the safe side and felt that a time of 8 months would be more prudent. Hopefully after testing I am hoping to get this down to 6 months, which equates to some pretty reasonable daily runs. One thing is for sure that there are no doldrums in the southern ocean and the winds do blow. So at 1 kg of food per day I "could" actually store that as canned food as 2 cans per day. Obviously there has to be variety so there will be a good mix of dried foods and muesli.
    Water is stored under the bunk and I have allowed for 200 litres in 10 litre plastic cans. The roof of the cabin will have dedicated gutters all round to catch rain water. For emergencies a hand pumped water maker (desalinator) will be on board.

    The 4x 105A batteries are in the keel which is not shown in this drawing, that gives me a total ballast of 300 kgs which is situated well below the water line. The boat is designed as a full keel heavy displacement craft that will have a displacement of 1100 kgs all heavy items will be very close to the water line.

    Now regarding cooking. Sven has the best answer to that and that is you don't cook at all, maybe I will be forced to go that route. But the boat will have a big 120 watt solar panel and a wind generator. The induction cooker is the most fantastic device imaginable SUPER power efficient and I can make a cup of coffee in 90 seconds and warm a plate of food in 4 minutes on a very low 400 watt setting. So the induction cooker will only work twice a day for 6 minutes total. Gas on a boat must be the most lousy thing EVER and to prove my point I will publish YouTube videos on how I prepare my food. I am also going to do this "trip diet" and publish that for all to see. My main concern is the reliability of the induction cooker in the sea air and how well will a Full Sine Invertor will stand up to the rigours of such a trip. I will only carry a very small backpacker gas cooker with for emergency usage.
     
  13. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Manie, Good luck with the project [​IMG]
    Sven gives some reasons to go for single glass . . .

    ASPECTS OF YRVIND ½ A SMALL VOYAGING BOAT
    Report of the journey in the quote: IN 1989 I SAILED 15 FOOT BRIS FROM FRANCE TO NEWFOUNDLAND
    P.S. - Note the hand holds below the windows that double as water collectors from where the water is easily sponged up or drained. Condensation on the windows means there's water taken out of the air which is making the air in the cabin dryer. Note also Sven once had a gas cooker on board.
    MALE MOLD FOR WINDOW FRAMES
     
  14. Fanie
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    Location: Colonial "South Africa"

    Fanie Fanie

    How well will this work... especially if rain water may get mixed with sea water. I will rather have something with a thread that can squeeze the water forcefully through a filter.

    I read an article of two blokes on a hobie, the worst they said was the work to keep making enough drinking water, one oke wasn't strong enough or got too tired. Perhaps it you have something you can throw water in and your weight pushes the water through the filter, ie while resting, you filter water.

    The other thing was their smokes got wet and blew out of the hull, so they must have been very grumpy half the time. Since Manie doesn't smoke, he's going to be grumpy all the time :D

    As for the electrics, even 400W through an inverter is going to be more than 50A off 12V. Apart from this high current, what do you do when it remains cloudy for some time.

    All these okes that did long trips didn't test such a trip beforehand, I would think you take a week or so and see if you can survive with what you have available. If you do it in the worst possible weather and live to tell then you would be fine.

    Remember that the survive-ability of something like this is all about comfort. Anything that causes discomfort, be it thirst, hunger, stress, effort, illness etc, radically shorten your ability to keep surviving under current conditions, what ever they may be or become. So you should seek as much comfort under any conditions.

    Make the mast foldable so you can fold it away in bad weather, strap the safety rig on, put a video camera outside where you can see how you dip, capsize and fly around, slide and tumble down a mountain of water, it will be like one of these extreme video cabs with the cylinders that bobs you around so it feels more realistic. That way when the ride is over you wouldn't have had to pay for the fun :p
     

  15. Wynand N
    Joined: Oct 2004
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    Location: South Africa

    Wynand N Retired Steelboatbuilder

    Keep it simple and reliable Manie :)

    Spin off here is the fact that the fuel can be used for those depressing lonely days to get high - much like the local hobos does, pour spirits thought piece of brown bread and you have moonshine that will be the envy any hard hitting vodka Russian....
     

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