Maltese Falcon ... hit or miss?

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Stephen Ditmore, Jun 29, 2006.

?

Maltese Falcon, hit or miss?

Poll closed Jun 29, 2007.
  1. A triumph!

    35 vote(s)
    33.7%
  2. Interesting

    58 vote(s)
    55.8%
  3. Uninteresting

    4 vote(s)
    3.8%
  4. A truly stupid concept and a complete waste of time

    7 vote(s)
    6.7%
  1. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 3,497
    Likes: 147, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2291
    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    However she compares with the very best achievements by hundreds of commercial craft straining to be the absolute first to arrive with a cargo that deteriorated in value with second place, MF remains a courageous experiment and a successful demonstration of the potential of the big sailer. I hope to see more efforts to apply modern technology to the task of powering a big ship, in the hope that, one day, our perilous dependence on oil can be reduced without the even more perilous use of nuclear power at sea.
     
  2. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 1,614
    Likes: 99, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1151
    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    Yahoo! More! Do it again! Yes! Sailing container ships next!!!!
     
  3. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
    Posts: 2,079
    Likes: 221, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 611
    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    I don't think so.

    Just for the hell of it, I drew a scaled sketch of a small, sail powered container ship. It was supposed to carry 16 20 ton containers.

    The ship had a length of about 250 ft and a beam of about 24 ft. The containers were to be stacked two high in eight separate holds.

    The four un-stayed masts were to be on the Port side of the ship, as not to get in the way of loading and unloading activities.

    To maneuver the ship up to the cranes accurately, two push boats that double as life boats were to be carried. Two 500 hp truck diesels were to be used for auxiliary propulsion and for powering the sail handling gear. One engine is actually enough, but the second one is a spare.

    The problem was that, even when loaded, the ship sat too high in the water.

    Containers may be a convenient way to carry cargo, but they aren't all that efficient (unless convenience counts as efficiency). The more old fashioned way of loading cargo allows for much denser packing.

    If the high price of fuel ever drives us back to sailing ships, we will most likely load them the old fashioned way.

    My guess is we will simply stick with huge container ships. When it comes to powered vessels, bigger is definitely better. A 900 ft ship almost certainly has a more mile tons per gallon than a 400 ft ship.
     
  4. YuriB
    Joined: May 2008
    Posts: 56
    Likes: 1, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 15
    Location: Russia

    YuriB Junior Member

    May be it would be better idea is to desigh rules for second mate on how to stack the containers in such a way so that they will form kinda square sails on the desk? ;-)
     
  5. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Than sailing must not be a problem for tankers and bulk carriers, if designed to do so . . .

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Thanks Mike for the enlightening post about the subject . . :)


    So, who's gonna come up with the answers to Mike's questions . . . .

    ‘‘ It would be interesting to know how much fuel she burns crossing the Atlantic ‘under sail’. ’’

    ‘‘ And what size motor craft could cross on that same amount of fuel. ’’

    Who knows or is able to dig up those figures . . ? ?

    The answers will also be the answer to the question in the thread title . . . ‘‘ Maltese Falcon ... hit or miss? ’’

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. ancient kayaker
    Joined: Aug 2006
    Posts: 3,497
    Likes: 147, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 2291
    Location: Alliston, Ontario, Canada

    ancient kayaker aka Terry Haines

    Another problem for a commercial sailing ship is utilisation. A ship represents a large capital investment and a slower ship makes fewer voyages per year and thus has a lower return. So sailing ships would be most likely to complete successfully along the traditional trade routes. I'm not enough of a seaman to know those, but that factor might determine the cargo they could best carry.
     
  8. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Well, Panama and Suez killed the traditional trade routes on which sailing cargo ships could compete best..

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
  9. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Formula Tag vessel

    I looked thru a number of references brought up by goggle that all quoted her as a trimaran, BUT I just don't seem to remember a large trimaran by that name.

    What I remember was a 75 or 80 foot catamaran (largest one for her time). In fact I was up in Quebec City, Canada to see her start for a record run across the Atlantic to St Malo I believe it was. ....memory isn't as good as it use to be. :confused:
     
  10. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    'Traditional Sails' vs 'Kite Sails'

    I don't think traditional sails on a commerical ship will ever compete with this newer kite technology.

    http://www.skysails.info/english/

    http://www.skysails.info/english/skysails-marine/skysails-propulsion-for-cargo-ships/advantages/

    "The SkySails system tows the ship using large, dynamically flying towing kites, which generate up to 25 times more energy per square meter than conventional sails propulsion systems. This equals up to 2,000 kW of propulsion power in good wind conditions."

    ********************************************

    Just wait until the fuel prices really get cranked up again and you will see more of this development.

    I even suggested that someone interested go ahead with the bulding of a kite assisted vessel (maybe an economical power cat or trihull 'trawler') and leave room on the bow for such a kite deployment as the tech advances.
    http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/boat-design/new-age-trawler-motorsailer-kite-assisted-poweryacht-20319.html

    http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/yacht-renderings-plans/14713-mike-kajan-yacht-designs-ii-7.html
     
  11. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Right Brian..!! your memory is OK :), it seems the WSSRC has it wrong and the 'Formule Tag' is a Cat . . . . . .

    Found on SuperStock . . . .
    This is what the sponsor remembers . . . .
    It looks like the same #7 Cat as the model in the first pic, whatever TAG Heuer, the WSSRC, and others say . . ;)

    Cheers,
    Angel
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2011
  12. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    SkySails Routing Programs

    I can't find it on their site now, but at one time they had a pretty complete description of their computer generated routing system to supplement their kite assisted power system

    The routing system is composed of a weather forecasting performance calculator, which processes the weather forecasting data and of a decision-making model, which calculates the optimal route following priorities set by the ship's owner. Finally, the routing system has a route recommendation feature, which translates the information into a series of waypoints read by the shipmaster.
     
  13. brian eiland
    Joined: Jun 2002
    Posts: 4,964
    Likes: 187, Points: 73, Legacy Rep: 1903
    Location: St Augustine Fl, Thailand

    brian eiland Senior Member

    Thank you very much for that find...maybe my memory isn't fading as badly as I supposed.
     
  14. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
    Posts: 3,003
    Likes: 330, Points: 83, Legacy Rep: 1632
    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The traditional trade routes were brought up and I responded to that, which doesn't mean I meant traditional sails . . ;)

    Cheers,
    Angel
     

  15. BATAAN
    Joined: Apr 2010
    Posts: 1,614
    Likes: 99, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1151
    Location: USA

    BATAAN Senior Member

    If a hypothetical MF rigged ship was 800-1000 feet long, had 6 masts no higher than 200 feet (bridges) and maybe a kite deployment space on the bow, with a space in the middle to get under a conventional 40 foot container handling crane, with folding stifflegs to handle boxes in other places, and a below deck and on deck system of stowing/securing said boxes, almost all cargo space with very small-for-the-tonnage engine/tankage, or even NO engine, bow/stern thrusters, and a few 40' on board heavily-overpowered tugs used in docking and river/channel navigation when local tugs are not available, could this be economically attractive?
    The reason for pursuing the 40 foot box handler concept is it goes right on a truck and is profit-friendly.
    Any system requiring the old Longshoremen as cargo handlers means large numbers of skilled heavy laborers to properly handle cargo from truck to ship and out again, quickly brings back the old unions due to the workers' new power of strike (container cranes don't strike and you can pay the operator a LOT so he won't either) and stoppage of work, radically changes the tonnage/labor/profit/cost ratio so the workers and the profit-gushing health care insurance system get the money instead of the shipping company owners so of course that will never happen in our system of all the money flowing uphill all the time.
    Sail or kite ships will work when consistently more profitable than fuel use, which will happen pretty soon as oil gets more scarce and expensive, and will have a painful development period in more modern form.
    Nuke ships will probably get shoved on us first.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.