Malibu Outrigger

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by BobBill, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    To be honest, it is so expensive I worry about goofing cause I am not as familiar as with glass.

    And, if I have to sand, which I did because the peel ply was not the best and had threads going all over, I ended up with prickers in arms.

    Stuff is much stiffer than glass. No biggie. Just a learning curve, I am beginning to like it. Just a bit timid, I think.
     
  2. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BobBill,

    What does your carbon cost per yard - what weight - is it plain weave or something more exotic?

    The mast really does need carbon, not the hull.

    Marc
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ================
    The carbon seems to itch much more than glass so I always dress up for any grinding job and try to do all trimming when just gelled. Just in case you don't know carbon is very conductive so you want to be carefull of dust and "hair" build-up on or around tools and plugs/sockets. Blow out any electric tool frequently.
     
  4. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    I had not thought about trimming while still curing, that will help. I sand outside and vacuum the dust, so will be watching that.

    Appreciate the advice, Doug.

    Yes, Marc, the carbon work here is solely for spars, beefing up a windsurfer North carbon stick, layer at a time, to match original mast's flex...seems it will not take much, and doing layers in a sequence...sleeve, then only forward side. Not bagging, but wrapping with narrow peel ply or film, depending on what I have on hand, and lightly sanding odd rough spots and places where the ply unraveled...very irritating that.

    Omni directional, then uni...I have learned the prices vary by source and so on.

    BTW, have not heard from the gentleman who has the damaged Tornado hulls, so have moved on. Thought I could make one good hull from the wreckage. C'est le vie.
     
  5. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Marc, Forgive me. I did not respond to your observation re carbon for repairs. I awoke at 3 AM with that in mind...

    I was figuring the use of narrow omni carbon strips at the seams where I joined the hull pieces would add some stiffening, plus bulkheads in same cross section. Maybe more overkill on my part. Mast is nearly finished, though. Going to add thin finish coat and cover, maybe tape it with some cheap polymide tape to protect it from bangs and sun, etc.

    The cedar idea seems to fit, had thought about white pine...encapsulated.

    Thanks.
     
  6. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BillBob,

    Unless you know a lot about how the structure needs to be designed don't waste your money on Carbon.

    Check out this building of a plywood catamaran. http://home.vicnet.net.au/~mosquito/documents/building.php
    This is the same thing that was originally done for the Tornado. Relatively simple and you would know what is in your boat.


    Pine would work just as good as the cedar , perhaps a little stronger, a little heavier. One thing about using cedar is it is easier to bend into place.

    Marc
     
  7. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Thanks, Marc. Will study the material on the link and incorporate. Yeah, was punting with the carbon seams, but that was a try to go from glass...and yes, seems overkill now. Appreciate it. Mr. Sullivan did get back. Looks like the boat is free but will report later. I have to figure a way to move to midwest.

    Just might be the way to salvage that set of hulls...
     
  8. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    I know what I'd rather do these days build a new hull! It will be fair, clean, dry and accurate if constructed properly and ready to paint with minimum fairing. No labourious stripping, reduced sanding and a boat that you can be proud of at the end and I'm willing to bet that it will cost less in time effort and money than rebuilding some old banged up hulls. Most people when restoring dont keep adequate track of the cost of all materials required such as paint stripper, brushes, sanding pads etc. Not to mention repairs and replacement of damaged materials in the hulls your restoring. The only time I'd consider rebuilding/restoring is if the boat has some historical or sentimental value that cant be ignored.
     
  9. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BobBill,

    If you get the hulls and just use one, fix the one with the bow damage. The other has been severely damaged in the area that requires the most strength and poorly repaired already.

    Keep us tuned in.

    Corley,

    What would you do then? Not double diagonal cold molding? or strip plank? or tortured?

    What was your choice?

    Marc
     
  10. Corley
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    Corley epoxy coated

    If it's a tornado hull I was trying to reproduce I'd build the tortured ply hull, easier with less materials needed and quite light and structurally efficient. If I had to choose between strip or cold mold I'd go the strip every time much less labour intensive even when you take into consideration the extra setup in terms of extra mold stations needed for strip you dont need to batten which is a big job in itself. I can see the virtue in combining strip with a double diagonal under certain circumstances but a glass layup on strip is a good option too.

    I can only imagine repairing balsa cored tornado hulls to being a slow torture you would have to open the core wherever it was soft and cut it out before adding new core and redoing the layup preferably vac bagging the new laminate. If you attempted to shortcut the procedure and inject epoxy into the old core after attempting to dry it you would be adding parasitic weight and would rapidly lose the small weight advantage of the balsa core over the ply boat. You also have to question the whole of the laminate on the old hull what resin was used is it polyester? Are you just setting yourself up for future grief?
     
  11. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Corley. This will be my fourth or fifth redo, and likely the easiest. I track costs, save the big one, labor...the fun. Was simply going to take the bulkhead or two and cut them away, and replace or insert as needed, carefully sawing etc.

    For example, as Marc implied, remove the bow section of the starboard hull and put it on the port hull, with bulk head inside etc. That leaves only making a new mast step set and the new ama of foam and glass over a board, and so on.

    Seems much easier and less costly. I am looking to make an outrigger, not a cat, essentially. At near 20 feet the rig should be a very lively, updated version of the Malibu Outrigger with optional sail plan...

    Below is current rebuild, a 73 Kite, now like new, with original Sitka spars redone and sealed or with carbon mast and new boom which I should have completed in day or so.

    The 110 is the first boat I completed in early 70s and still sails today. It new sheeting was rejected by the class then, and adopted within a year or so. That boat rocked even without the then forbidden trap set. And was not expensive to do, save my labors, which is the fun for me.
     

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  12. PeteCress
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    PeteCress Junior Member

    A good practice that I stumbled on to a few weeks ago when the wife was about to dump this little Oreck cannister vaccum at the thrift shop: when you take a break, but aren't ready for a shower yet, sit down and run a vacuum with the brush attachment over yourself - skin, clothers, hair... the whole nine yards.

    It *really* helps me.
     
  13. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Yes, it does help much. I began doing that with the Shop Vac...really have to when sanding Dow foam. Stuff is clingy...BTW, spent lots of time reading the the outrigger threads and your contributions. Very helpful. Appreciate your input. You must have a very nifty little boat.

    If you have not heard, I had to pass on the MO in CA and it was sold shortly after. Timing...but now have two possibilities, a damaged Tornado set to make one and one Windmill hull, which I have yet to receive the details...Nationals going on now I believe...

    I think using an extended Windmill hull as vaca is just about perfect for my uses. Would be much like the first boat in the eighth row down here http://www.tacking-outrigger.com/ I just want to have a place to sit "in" not on the boat as done on MO, and extending the 'mill seems the best way to do it without major construction...I ramble.

    Let you know how it goes along.

    Thanks, Pete.
     
  14. PeteCress
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    PeteCress Junior Member

    My recollection is that seating comfort was not among the best aspects of my MO.... -)

    OTOH, there is Chris Grill's solution: http://grillabongquixotic.wordpress.com/2011/07/
     

  15. Roger Six
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    Roger Six Surge Protector

    Chris Grill's blog was special. Thanks for that link.
     
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