Malibu Outrigger

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by BobBill, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. PeteCress
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    PeteCress Junior Member

    I do not think you want more float in the ama bc IMHO there is more than enough already. I was about 190# when I was sailing mine and with me and another (160#) sailor on it there was never even a hint of it needing more float.

    The crew hiking out on the windward side takes alot of the sinking load off of it, leaving the only real requirement being for floatation when not under sail - of which there is plenty. We used to anchor off Waikiki with 4 of us on board, no problem.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2012
  2. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ====================
    1) You've asked a lot of different questions but as best I remember I suggested a straight ,horizontal "foil assist" board for your main hull after it is determined that it would help and not just be drag(or if it is easily removable).
    The horizontal board is shallow draft-I don't think a slanted board for foil assist on the main hull would be appropriate.
    2) A Mill is narrow for a mono for its length but not for a multi. Saving grace is that it planes easily but you better figure on significantly more sail than a standard Windmill(119sq.ft). And the hull does not like a lot of weight. Ideal max displ. including crew around 540lb. You'd be much better off with a used cat hull that'll carry the weight.
     
  3. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Gentlemen, I agree. This plan has evolved quite a bit, and slowly, which is good, it seems. It is not in cement yet.

    The move to the somewhat wider hull was motivated by ease and accommodating crew than for speed. Windmill hull weight is about 155 bare. Guess total weight rigged will be around 350...min for MO is 400. then add 200 to 500 for crew. I believe it will be just fine or as fine as a loaded MO, which begins at 400 min all up, no crew.

    It will not be an MO, for sure, but I generally produce decent work, so its sailing and aesthetics should be acceptable.

    Ease means not having to go all over the area to acquire good wood etc, which as proven to be a problem, unless I use construction grade, which I refuse to do, and not building in winter here. (Have only to construct the akas, outrigger hull and rigging. I have most of rigging, save the larger sail.)

    The foils were a sort of wishful, playful afterthought...a down the tack sort of plan, which was more wish...

    Figured to use two sail sets, one main, as large as original MO at 226 sq feet with full roach etc, with either semi crab claw or sloop rig with small jib...and much smaller main only for single handed beer cruises or with kids aboard.

    Nope, not a Malibu Outrigger, for sure. But, then it may be more practical and certainly will handle two or three adults easily...the girls will have to hang on...

    The idea does coincide with the links Peter sent of that narrow tacking proa using the Hobie cast off as an ama...it is not like there are lots of MOs around and the class is going to come back, which would be great. Boat was ahead of its time, no doubt.

    However, my intent is to sail well, on my own strings so to speak, and enjoy the best of building, originality, and plain simple sailing fun. If it goes as fast as an older MO, all the better, which I am sure it will.

    Pete, I planned to build a foam/glass outrigger float and add weight as needed, ala Gary Dierking's suggestions in his informative work on building outrigger canoes.
     
  4. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================
    I raced Windmills for years-min hull weight is 198; rig and foils about 40lb* more.
    Is the hull you're getting glass with side tanks?
    *corrected per specs below
     

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  5. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Aye, as a matter of fact, derelict, mast-boomless, glass. And, I assumed it to be 200 lbs +-20, and thought the all up weight was 198 as stated above. I sort of scheduled out weight...and the akas are currently the great non hull contributors.

    My hunch is that the narrow MO hull might be matched by the very fast/efficient Windmill shape...with more room, and no wood procurement problems.
     
  6. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    A windmill is very fast for a monohull dingy, but not for a multihull.
    I sailed against them on Portsmouth handicap for several years and we were always on the trailer waiting for them to finish, except in light airs.

    Plan on having to use lots of rudder for your boat to go straight.
     
  7. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Marc, Not sure I understand...deep dagger plus ama, not super fast but a bit more comfy that bare cat hull with rigger hanging on...

    Seems to me, beam aside, should function faster than its original design...like I said, not in cement, but seems easier than full MO and way easier wood gathering-wize.

    If I could locate suitable cat hull needed salvaging, would jump on it. The 'Mill is headed for dump, unless I do the facelift.
     
  8. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BobBill,
    The 4' wide windmill weighing 200# will generate a lot more drag than a 1' wide hull as in the original MO. Since it is about 8 feet off the side from where the dagger and rudder are it will make the whole boat pull to that side when it is to leeward. to counteract that drag you will have to be pushing on the rudder to keep the boat straight.

    The big fat (relatively) windmill ama will slow down the boat, the fact that you have to steer harder to make the boat go straight will slow it down again. Why did you want a MO in the first place?

    Would it be very hard to build the MO ama? mostly plywood with a small bend. This is the simplest thing you could ever build.

    Just because the windmill is going to the dump doesn't make it a good choice for you.
     
  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ===============
    Unless I completely misunderstand BB's intention the 'Mill will be the main hull where the mast is stepped, where the the rudder and daggerboard are, right?
     
  10. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Doug,

    I just went back and reread and you were absolutely right.
    My mistake.

    BillBob,

    Please change everything I said to indicate the boat will be slower if the MAIN HULL is the windmill. What I said still applies except you won't get a big turning moment. The boat will still be slower than designed. however there are other threads about using a monohull with outrigger or outriggers which seem to work. Probably comparatively slowly. There have been a lot of proa's built and they have settled on skinny hulls.

    The windmill will be going backward in development. How about finding an old Tornado catamaran and use that hull for the main hull. 20' long and comparatively full sized hull to give you lots of displacement.
     
  11. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    I figured you would glean what I was doing with the Windmill hull eventually.

    I have been looking for a Tornado hull, but far and few, so sort of settled for something between the MO and the cat hull.

    I want the do the proa thing and still be able to take a few along at times.

    Also, I had to give up sailing when kids were in house due to work and moving here and now back into it and would like to do with them as well. My current boat is just perfect for me, but not with crew.

    The one thing about the MO hull is that it is a super simple build, narrow and easily goes deeper as crew increases, but its long lwl compensates, which the Windmill hull does not do anywhere as efficiently, obviously.

    And, as I have noted often, I value your input, gentlemen, and why I note the changes here.

    Not in cement, and still looking for half a Tornado...you never know. I did find a doomed Hobie 20 up north, but had to take whole boat and did not want to deal with that.

    Marc, as to the whys: Low cost is a big factor, and size, with ability to alter to fit needs. The MO is a wonderful boat in lots of ways and simpler to build than most sailboats, but needed refinements...my greatest problem is accumulating the lumber here. Long trip to pick up and then, if I goof, more long trips and wasted time.

    With that in mind, wait until you see what I have done with my Kite Dinghy. It is updated and about to take a dip to see if what I did will be satisfactory...Tasteful improvement, hopefully in both cases, while saving something of value.
     
  12. PeteCress
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    PeteCress Junior Member

    You've seen this, right?
    Code:
    To: "malibuoutrigger@yahoogroups.com" <malibuoutrigger@yahoogroups.com>
    Subject: [malibuoutrigger] (unknown)
    From: Don Pierce <malibuoutrigger@yahoo.com>
    Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 05:34:03 -0700 (PDT)
    
    I have a Malibu Outrigger for sale. I am losing my space to restore it. 
    ALL parts are there, no rot as far as I know. It needs TLC. 
    It comes with a trailer. $700.00 firm.
    Contact Don at* 805-758-4595 or email at malibuoutrigger@yahoo.com
     
  13. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Many thanks. Sent email...just noticed it also has trailer. Things looking up.
     
  14. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Peter. I was in touch with Don re the MO. It is in LA area. Almost decided to give it a go. Decent shape, with all the spruce, good trailer, etc, but due to family constraints and timing to pick up out there, had to pass. Incidentally, boat looks like it might have belonged to John Abel at one time...he sent me MO plans...

    I did find a damaged set of Tornado hulls on East Coast and slowly getting to a deal...figure to combine the good and bad hulls, and go from there. Looks not to be a big problem.

    I honestly think the Windmill hulled proa would have been the best all around boat, but the Tornado hulls might prove as accommodating. Will see, if I can get them and do the work needed.

    This thing goes right, I will have a quick launch tacking proa that will go from trailer to water in 20 minutes. Unstayed mast, boards and tramp, wide folding ama. Simple, fast, and fun...

    Appreciate your heads-up on the MO much. Thanks.
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BobBill,

    Would you be willing to share access to the person with the Tornado hulls? I have a damaged/ very old rig I would like to replace. I already have a set of damaged hulls so I would not compete with you on that.

    Thanks,

    Marc
     
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