Malibu Outrigger

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by BobBill, Dec 16, 2011.

  1. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    Bob I highly recommend you check out the outrigger/proa thread in the design section of forum.woodenboat.com. There are MANY discussions of modifications undertaken, and their actual effect in real sailing (and trailering) conditions. Although I respect your desire to build a Malibu, there are many other designs out there that are equally, if not more, "cool". Especially gary dierking's latest design, based on tahitian canoes. It is so good looking, and pretty fast for a "three board canoe"...

    As far as daggerboard versus skeg, it will be hard to get a tacking outrigger canoe to tack and track well without a proper foil. I know this from experience. Tacking my hard chined 24' wa'apa was impossible until I put in a proper daggerboard. It could go somewhat upwind without a proper foil (I had a roughly shaped leeboard for a few months before making a proper naca profiled daggerboard), but poorly and with control limitations. Surfing downwind was very difficult too, leading to a few spinouts where I lost control. On certain points of wind and chop the boat could not be turned, even by rowing with the steering oar. The assymetrical shape of a tacking outrigger canoe makes control issues very important in my experience, and a daggerboard is pretty important for directional stability. Remember there is a draggy lever arm always extending to one side, but not to the other, of a tacking outrigger canoe. If the boat were designed to be perfectly balanced on one tack, it would be spinning out of control on the other, so instead these boats are usually imperfectly balanced on both tacks. After installing a proper daggerboard on my boat the control issues all but disappeared. This is just my experience but I don't think I am the only one to recommend a daggerboard so...
     
  2. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Yes, Perterchech, I agree. A dagger board will be indispensable...

    I did check the site you mentioned and the many Dierking designs. Some are quite interesting but would not be fitting for me...and the MU basic build is so simple, it is really hard to pass up.

    I may alter the sail from its modified crab claw to a rotating cat sail using a Force 5 mast bottom section and two carbon fiber windsurfer masts atop, but with added carbon fiber layer to stiffen as needed. This will preclude custom fittings at the gooseneck etc.

    Boom might be swiped from another class as well.

    Maybe a vang.

    I plan to use carbon fiber or aluminum tubing for the outrigger spars, in 3 sections, with the center section nearly as long as the 2 outer ones for stiffness, and add a tramp instead of hiking boards...all (theoretically) collapsible and easily trailed and set up...

    It is the getting it into the water that is the current problem, but may have that solved with a small beach styled dolly, perhaps.

    Will use pool noodles for flotation with a somewhat open hull (cockpits) for comfort...

    Currently looking for Hobie 17 starboard hull, to use as ama, but not a big deal.

    Fun, all this planning...thanks for your considerate reply and the information, especially the balance need, I had not thought of the ama's affect on tacking. Something to look into more deeply, and will do so.
     
  3. keysdisease
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    Forget the Hobie Hull and build an ama. It will be much lighter and will be the right ama for the boat.

    The Hobie Hull will be very heavy, asymetric, be more wetted surface than the planned ama

    Steve
     
  4. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    The Hobie 17 is not asymmetric as I remember.

    Anyone actually know the weight? I had a much larger Tornado cat on which the hulls weighed 60# each.

    Given that my 18' kayak weighs 45# (strip planked cedar and 2 plys of glass) I doubt there would be much difference. Except that some of the older style of construction (MO?) would probably weigh more.

    Anyone have some facts?

    Are there plans available to be looked at or would I need to pay to see?

    Marc
     
  5. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Malibu Outrigger Ama

    Marc, I will most likely build the ama, for the reasons keysdisease noted above. The Hobie thing was a thought. The idea of burying the ama on the MO is scary, to me, so will build it lighter and maybe with wave piercing bow. There are a few Hobies for sale cheap...but I decided to bite the bullet.

    Thanks.
     
  6. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

  7. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    I guess I will pass until I can see something about the boat besides a typical photo

    Marc
     
  8. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

  9. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    BillBob,

    Thanks very much. You really can see much of the current Bolger style construction in this article.

    Current Proa styles seem to be similar also.

    Marc
     
  10. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    De nada...I knew nothing of Proas and so on, until I got interested in this rig. I need a tacking boat for harbors etc. Very intriguing. Never heard of shunting either, and I have been sailing since 60s. Wanted a MO back then, but did not have the smarts to go for it. Built a 110 keelboat, which I love still but sold when we moved here.

    My little refurbished Kite is super, but too small and have a hankering for a multihull, which I never have owned or sailed upon.

    Here are some more pics etc. of Proas with some MO plans noted.



    https://picasaweb.google.com/108149798664924808733/Ulua#5668615623832305074

    and

    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/garyd/wa_apa.html
     
  11. peterchech
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    peterchech Senior Member

    Bill since you are new to multihulls I recommend you consider a safety ama for the outrigger you build. Mine doesn't have one but I regret that because you are constantly on edge, worrying about a sudden gust or gybe or sudden boat wake or whatever flipping you over the non-ama side. A safety ama allows you to adjust the rig/etc without needing crew to be hiked out constantly when the ama is to windward. That peace of mind allows you to sail a bit closer to the edge, but also be far more relaxed while actually sailing in real world conditions (I sail in cold water, esp in the spring, so capsizing can be a real fear even with the wetsuit on...)
     
  12. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Good idea.

    I have been thinking about early spring sailing (Minnesota) but thought I would incorporate a bit of removable ballast in the ama, which would or should prevent quick dumps...water or diver lead...and would remove later in season.


    I know what you mean...wet suit or not, it is not fun in spring waters...especially when I would be sailing alone most of the time.

    I had thought to use a Hobie 14 or 17 hull for that, but learned they do submerge and passed.
     
  13. keysdisease
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    keysdisease Senior Member

    You're right, my bad. I read 17 and my brain saw 14, old timer Hobie sailor from when there were only the 14 & 16. Steve


     
  14. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    No problem...every bit helps.
     

  15. BobBill
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    BobBill Senior Member

    Received plans. So speedy. Thanks Mr. Abel.

    No schedules per se, so must review, digest and set to schedules...maybe do some minor lofting and layouts on some Kraft paper.

    Simple boat, really, but need update a bit.

    Looks to lend itself to lighter (1/8 or so) Okuma ply for hull, save bottom, glassed with 4 or 6 oz/epoxy.

    Deck at .25-inch, glassed.

    Tramp, foam/glass (?) ama, laminate akas or iakos.

    I know the design is time-tested, but wondering if chines should be the stringers, instead of butted with fore/aft stringers being interior under deck and above bottom? (Was way 110 was made and seemed foolproof way to stiffen and seal.)

    Much fun, this one will be.
     
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