Maine Lobsterboat - New Concept Proposed

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by DCockey, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

    Seems to me the biggest factor influencing efficiency is the one-man-boats being described. 200 pots a day and a six hour day isn't going to work anymore. A four man boat out 12 hours a day, seven days a week could be 30% more fuel efficient. But that requires the sort of area where you can work 5000 pots (total).
     
  2. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    The inshore lobster fishery in Maine is purposely regulated to keep it as a local fishery with mostly owner-operators. Entry and number of traps are controlled to keep from decimating the stocks.
     
  3. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Actually, yeah... they would snap them up.

    Are you from there? Were you born there? Are you a "Yankee" from New England? Do you personally know people who run these boats? No?

    I do and am to all of the above.

    The lobstermen are not old people. You have that completely wrong. Old men don't have the stamina (with rare exception) do that kind of work. I know many guys on these boats that are younger than I am. Plenty of them are in their 30's and 40's, I've seen some in their 20's and there were a pair of college girls running a boat a couple summer back we used to see.

    The boat I was talking about was the one in the link... this one:

    [​IMG]

    This boat is properly set up to haul traps (they are hauled over the rail of the boat) and has the correct shape above the waterline, assuming there is a curve to the topsides, as you pointed out.

    Sure, the boat might have an annoying roll period. That might be the only real drawback, unless the hull is worse than a normal semi-displacement boat when loaded in terms of fuel efficiency. In that case, it's a non-starter.

    I know plenty of people who run these boats and have hauled a trap or two in my time.

    They will eat these up if they save on fuel costs. With the prices of lobster at an all time low right now, they need to save all they can. That is... if they still have a permit - those have been getting thinned out lately.

    Ever heard of Yankee ingenuity? That's the inventiveness and adaptability of people from New England. There is also a frugal component to that. If this boat saves money and works in a similar fashion to a more traditional boat without too many drawbacks, they will, indeed... eat them up.

     
  4. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    That's exactly correct. They have even been cutting the number of permits lately.
     
  5. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Location: Flattop Islands

    Tad Boat Designer

    Don't want to argue Cat but my experience and viewpoint are different than yours.......

    I do have some experience with the subject.......I've been working with Pete Kass for close to 20 years, since he stopped working with Carroll Lowell. http://www.johnsbayboat.com/Index.html We work together on the commercial hulls and I design the Lobster Yachts as required. I also did live in Maine, (East Boothbay, Jefferson) for 15 years.......Our office was in East Boothbay, then Damariscotta, worked mostly on yachts with Hodgdon, Hinckley, and others overseas, but also with small local builders......

    This 36' is one of our (Pete & I) more successful hulls
    May 07 016.jpg

    Looking again at that model......notice how the topsides roll inboard just a the aft end of the house......there's lots of flair forward (roller position) of that which is not shown....that shape won't work as the sole ends way inboard of the rail......We've been flattening topsides at the roller for years to get toes further outboard and save those knees.......

    Honestly....I've been trying to change fishing vessel design for 20 plus years, technical solutions are just part of the argument.....there are many good reasons why particular boats keep being built......
     
  6. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    perhaps those (tubs) have to have that much boogie to punch big tides and wind, I dunno abt tides up that neck of the woods
    Perhaps its stubborn tradition
    When I build a fishing boat , for stand up game and other fishing I pay real attention to the side deck height knees dont come into it
    You see those blade foiler cats, well they bank in on turns like a mono, they are also not as beamy as some cats, so the motion is easier. Cats and tris joggle they do not have that easy roll and that is quite hard to adjust to-- but they can run fast downwind and dont slow upwind either
    They do use less fuel with foil but they seem to still have big shp
    I think you East Coast fishermen would like em
     
  7. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    here is a man that really has gripped the market not commercial fishing but Tad's boat reminded me to look here.
    I once did a small gamefisher and it was deep vee planing, I had two short strakes forwards and thats all I ever put on. THe owners asked me to put on full length and had Craig go for a ride in her
    Of course they took them off as strakes just make a boat hard
    http://www.cld.co.nz/welcome.htm
    On his monos he always makes a good entry
     

    Attached Files:

  8. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    dean, cairns custom craft had foils on cats in the 90's, they got good write ups at the time then faded away so they can't be that good or they would be on more boats.
     
  9. Dean Smith

    Dean Smith Previous Member

    Craig Loombes just fitted one onto a big cat 750shp a side the owner told me he got 1 litre a mile more per side, I was not that impressed . i have seen the bladerunners working the surf on the West Coast here. But I,ll stick with monos , thats what I know and they are far less money to build Yes foils have been around in one form or t,other since 50,s, or was it 60,s in Italy
     
  10. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    I assume the typical Maine lobster boats are what you are calling "tubs". The reason is ???
     
  11. lobsterman
    Joined: Mar 2004
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    Location: Maine

    lobsterman Junior Member

    I don't support the socialistic econut green spin on the original article, and there is absolutly no lack of lobsters of the coast of Maine !!!. but i suppose i can shed a bit of light on the subject of lobster boats....
    Many of us prefer the rounded bilge designs because hard chine boats pound too much (tiring on the legs and bad for the back ). Most lobsterman are not seeking the big high horsepower engines because there is already a pretty much set hull speed in most vessel designs. There is also the fact that the more complex the bottom structure is, the more time, effort, and cost there is to maintain, (which is also why you don't see twin eng lobster boats).
    As for the comments about knees and rail height, many of us feel that the optimum rail height is where the bottom edge of the inboard rail is just above the kneecap so you can stabilize youself using your leg against the rail, and so that the traps on deck will fit under the rail. also many of us prefer a rail that is not soo thick or high because it raises the height of the traps when we are clearing and rebaiting them.
    If the fellow actually new the progression of modern lobster boats he would realize that the width to length ratio is increasing, also the fact that they are now carrying there width all the back to the stern to increse capacity and deck space.
    Now don't get me wrong, the guy is on the right track with a somewhat multi-hull design, but... It needs to be wider, the displacement needs to be equalized evenly among the three hulls, (the side hulls need to be almost as long as the center hull), then incorporate a shallow, 6 cavity, Captured Air Bubble ( CAB ) design under the hull, which would provide air lubrication while underway, yet it would also provide a stabilizing / suction effect while hauling, or at slower speeds.
    I made a post about my idea for a captured air bubble or surface effect ship type multi-hull lobster boat quite some time ago on this site, it is probably still on here somewhere ???.

    Oh and before i go... I must tip my hat to the Aussies for there thinking outside the box with the multi-hull designs. Keep up the good work and don't be afraid to radicalize the designs even further !!!. ( how about a foil assisted swath cat ???, Hmmm now there is an idea, LOL ).
     
  12. lobsterman
    Joined: Mar 2004
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    Location: Maine

    lobsterman Junior Member

  13. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Being one of those 'socialistic econuts' myself, I take little exception.

    I am a working man as well. Not one of those summer house liberals who donate $2000 a year to 'Enviornmental Defense Fund'. I donate, maybe, $20.
    And, if I ever reminded them of the implications of what they supposedly stand for, they would probably throw me off their porch ;)

    That being said, I do have a few questions for you.

    1.) How big is your boat. How long? How wide? and how much does it weigh?
    2.) How much horse power does it have?
    3.) How big is the live well where you keep the caught lobsters in? How much water does it hold?
    4.) What are the dimensions of a typical trap? Length? Width?
    5.) How do you get the lobsters out of the well, once you make port?

    I have just thought of catamaran with very narrow hulls which have to be deep to make up the needed displacement. The reasons to make them narrow are:
    1.) to cut down on snap rolling, as this is a function of their waterplane area, and
    2.)to cut down wave making resistance.

    This, by the way, would make a sucky sailboat, as the wetted surface would be quite large. But, as a power boat, it may not be so bad. Even though it would not be a true SWAPTH, it would have at least some of the virtues of one.

    The engine would be mounted under the deck at the bow and its shaft would parallel to the bottom edge of a long triangular keel, which would be mounted under the deck on the centerline. At the end of this keel would be the propeller and the rudder.

    The whole thing would look like a Jersey garvey where the builder forgot to build the hull, but added three keels under the deck and cabin instead.

    The minuses are:

    1.) there would have to be a live well in each hull,
    2.) maneuvering in harbor would be somewhat tricky, as the long, deep hulls would not want to turn very quickly. Backing up would be particularly challenging,
    3.) low speed economy will be sacrificed for improved higher speed economy.
    Maybe even more so than in present boats, and
    4.) the top speed will probably be slower.

    The plusses are:

    1.) a lot of deck space for the pots, as the Beam will have little to do with the displacement, and
    2.) a much smaller engine will be needed to get 'reasonable' performance.

    My guess right now is that a typical lobsterboat may have been 30ft long, about 10ft wide, displaced roughly 10,000 lbs and had roughly 100 hp. The newer ones may be heavier, have disproportionately more horse power, and may even plane. I can't even make an intelligent guess of what the actual numbers are, but I wouldn't be surprised if they have engines in the order of two to three hundred horsepower. Time is money. Even today, with rising fuel costs.
     

  14. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Ok, I see what you mean about the flair forward now. Good point.

    Sorry if my post was a little bit confrontational.

    I guess our differing experiences might be due to different times? I know people currently hauling traps. They are somewhat younger and more open to new ideas, but of course, ideas that work.

    What I was trying to say was that IMO, people would probably jump at a boat that could save them fuel money these days. Why? Because lobster is near record lows in $/lb still and fuel is near record highs.

    If someone cracks that nut, they'll make a killing.

    Everything is a balance, as we all know, so there is some balance to be had between more efficient lobster boats and ones that can carry a load, sit beam on to a swell and haul traps easily. if someone gets the fuel efficiency up, I think they stand to make big money - that is, if the price of lobster firms up a bit and they issue more permits. The permit pool has been shrinking for years.

    So Tad: Are you an American or Canadian?



     
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