Mahogany Utility Runabout

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Mr Salt, Jul 1, 2015.

  1. Mr Salt
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    Location: Chicagoland

    Mr Salt Junior Member

    Good Day Everyone,
    I am new here so please be patience with me.
    I have grown up with many makes of open bow fiberglass runabouts.
    Not to long ago my Grandfather purchased a Wooden Runabout from a maker in Lake Geneva WI (Streblow). It was by far the best boat I have been on.
    I would love to build my own one day in the near future and believe it would be a great bonding experience with my son.
    I am looking to build a 23-24' wooden boat. I would like it to be true wood and not a bunch of veneer pieces epoxied together with a sheet of fiberglass.
    I want a pretty wide boat 7-11 - 8'.
    I would like a boat that is dry maybe 32-36" free board front and 26-28" rear.
    One thing that is a must is a rear placed motor with a vee drive and inboard prop.

    So I have some questions.
    I know the general design of the boat, but wanted to make it my own. I want to understand by changing this it affects that.
    What books can I read to help me understand the design process?
    What software programs should I use to design and build it?
    What should I stay away from and what should i pay attention to?
    Any and all comments are appreciated.
    Thank you
    Have a great day.
     
  2. rasorinc
    Joined: Nov 2007
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    Location: OREGON

    rasorinc Senior Member

    Go to the Glen-L Marine web site look at inboards, classics. ken hankinson boats, look at customer build photos and enjoy. big site have all the books and have been in business 70 years.
     
  3. Mr Salt
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    Mr Salt Junior Member

    Thank you for the advise.
    All of their inboards have the engine mounted in the middle not at the rear, and they do not have enough beam or free board to support my needs.
    Thank you
     
  4. messabout
    Joined: Jan 2006
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    Location: Lakeland Fl USA

    messabout Senior Member

    Save a lot of headaches and a bunch of money. Have a professional do your boat design for you. Your situation is common on the forum, A new person, not experienced in design principles wants to use a computer program to do his own design. The grim fact is that the computer will do what you tell it to do. The computer does not know how to design a boat. It is a marvelous tool but the old reality is still in force. GIGO = garbage in, garbage out.

    This is not to question your intelligence or learning capacity in the least. Yes you can design your boat, yes it will float. Will it be as good as you had dreamed it might be? Not likely. You want the engine fully astern. OK you can have that with a zee drive or a vee drive. Now you have to have the static and hydro dynamic balance figured out. They are not the same. Your opening remarks suggest that you want a carvel planked boat. OK you can have that but you need to know what shapes can be reasonably accommodated with carvel construction. You want a dry boat and imply that a lot of freeboard will accomplish that aim. Maybe, maybe not. It depends on many factors other than freeboard. I can continue but you will have gotten the general idea. Designing a successful boat of the type you want is not a simple proposition. Get professional help. That will result in less cost in the long run.

    Disclaimer: I am not a boat designer. We do have several very competent ones here on the forum. None of them use the forum for commercial promotions. If you ask who they are we will tell you.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Welcome to the forum.

    The design aspect of the process is typical of any engineering. There's no software that will help you design anything, though there is software that will speed up corrections, calculations, redrawing alterations and modifications. Simply put, design is knowledge, not software.

    This said, you can easily change the styling and aesthetic realities of any design. Of course, reasonably sound engineering should be employed, say if raising the sheer or making a different cabin, etc., but these things are commonly done and can make the boat "your own".

    Find a design that fits your building method, size, power, speed and accommodation requirements, then make adjustments to the gingerbread and other issues you have concerns with. There are lots of building methods and though you think you want "true wood and not a bunch of veneer pieces epoxied together", you'll find plank on frame building much more difficult to live with, than one of the more modern methods of construction. The traditional carvel, lapstrake and batten seam methods have been all but replaced with newer methods, simply to address common issues among the older ones. For example carvels leak, so do lapstrakes if the laps are mechanically fastened. This requires they hang in a travel lift sling for a day or two as they suck up. Most find this pretty inconvenient to say the least.

    So, these traditional methods and materials have been "up graded" to employ stock that's more dimensionally stable, like plywood instead of solid lumber planking, glued seams instead of mechanical fasteners, etc. The results of these modernizations are more water tight boats, that have fewer pieces to purchase, cut and install, plus can live on a trailer without having to soak up initially.

    You can do what you like, but you'd be best advised to do some serious research into the various building methods, before settling on preconceived notions about them.
     
  6. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    Location: Beaufort, SC and H'ville, NC

    philSweet Senior Member

  7. Mr Salt
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    Mr Salt Junior Member

    While appreciate you responses,
    I am not looking for the computer to do the designing for me.
    I would like to read and reference books that will assist me in the design process.
    I am only interested in 23'-28' runabouts. I don't wish to ever design / build a sail boat or large yacht
    I would like to take a design like below flare out the front deck a little.
    Create a more comfortable relaxed seating arrangement in it, and possibly even build a ski tower on it.
    The reason I stated that I want a real wood boat, as I feel they will be a bit heavier more solid and absorb the large chop that can be present on Lake Geneva
    If you could let me know what books might be most helpful for the type of boat I am after as well as what software might be most helpful in allowing me to see what layout will look and play with it to get what I am after.

    I understand that there is a lot of calculations and measurements that go into designing a boat. And if you change one figure it will change most of the others. And even if it looks good on paper or a screen it wont perform well.

    I want to be able to understand what goes into the design process, how each measurement effect another, whether it be height, length, width, weight and even the position and location of the weight. I want to be able to call it my own.

    Again I want to let you know I appreciate your responses.

    Have a great day
    http://www.antiqueboat.com/boatdetails/15283-R24.aspx
     
  8. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Eustis, FL

    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Okay, so you want to design a boat. Great, but the understanding of a single, quite specific type isn't any different than most of the others as well. Simply put, you'll study engineering and hydrodynamics, which will include the little runabout you envision, but can also be applied to other types of boats (the principles are the same). In short, I know of no program that focuses on just the design of runabouts.

    There are some correspondence courses available and I'd recommend WestLawn as the best. The other option is a full up BA in naval architecture, though this fully comprehensive type of thing, may be more than necessary for your needs. Technically, you could buy the texts and study yourself, but this will take a lot longer than enrolling in a course as WestLawn.
     
  9. Mr Salt
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    Mr Salt Junior Member

    I appreciate people responding, but I would appreciate if they would respond to the questions asked, rather than their opinion on my level education pertaining to the topic and ability to complete a task once I have done the appropriate research.

    I asked if someone could suggest books for me to help me understand the fundamentals and concepts of boat designing, and software that would aid in the design process.

    I have a goal in mind and I most often than not I complete my goals.

    I am not saying that this boat is going to produce records or win awards, but rather be something I am proud of and my family can enjoy for many years.

    If someone can assist me in the process, rather than push me away or towards a designer it would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you for the reposes.
    Have a great day
     
  10. philSweet
    Joined: May 2008
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    philSweet Senior Member

    And while you gather up the technical know how, you want to make sure that what you learn is going to stick wrt the boat you want to own. Get busy making sketches. Make two or three sketches of runabouts every day. Copy from magazines and ads. Draw profiles and plan views and some midsections and furniture details. Figure out how the fuel tanks get piped, how the engine exhaust gets run, and what prevents seawater from flooding the boat through the exhaust. Make one larger drawing each week. Get a tabletop drafting board and a starter drafting kit and a set of ship's curves and make one decent drawing each week at about 1/10 or 1/12 scale. When you look back at these after a year, you'll be amazed at the progress you've made. And I think it's the only way to connect the tech side to creating something you actually want.

    Next thing would be to build a skiff about 1/10 the weight of the boat you want, but that uses the same construction methods. Say a 14' runabout with hard chine, ply bottom and deck, planked mahogany sides, mahogany king plank and covering boards, mahogany furniture, and a 50hp outboard. Buy plans, modify and redraw the build to take advantage of the side planking freedom, maybe develop an oval planked transom mod. The consensus is that a first time builder will spend less time and money building the two boats than if they had started on the big one. And the 14'er will likely be in the water before you have grandkids.
     
  11. Mr Salt
    Joined: Jul 2015
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    Mr Salt Junior Member

    Thank you philSweet
    Now that gives me some motivation.
    I hope I can get both done by the time I have grandkids as I am only 35 and both kids are under 7.
    I really do appreciate it.
    May you suggests any books or software that would guide / assist me along the way?
    Thanks again
     
  12. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I can offer my software (naval architecture calculations and scantlings) for free and my support, until the load is too heavy for my shoulders.
     
  13. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I think you should say what level of math and physics you have. That will determine which books will be suggested to you.
     
  14. Mr Salt
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    Mr Salt Junior Member

    It was not my primary focus, but have taken both math and physics in College.
    I would say my math skills are a little higher than my physics, but I believe I can learn what is needed.
    If a book is to complicated for me I will just take a step backwards for an easier reading book and once I understand it i will move forward again.
    Thank you for your response.
     

  15. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Do not worry Mr Salt, to project the boat that you want, and many other ships some "designers" can do, are not required great knowledge of math: add, subtract, multiply and divide; raise to powers and extracting square roots; you do not need to know how to calculate integrals, although it is good to have a clear concept of integration. You may need another operation but for more than 50 years ago, nobody crafted, the calculators perform. Therefore, mathematics, for your boat, not at a high level.
    As for the physical: composition of forces and moments calculation; if you know and understand Archimedes' principle, the better.
    And with that, I am convinced that you can design your boat, if someone next to you, will tell you a series of tips on what are several things and how to calculated them.
     
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