LPG hot water system for small craft

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by trip the light fandango, Aug 12, 2018.

  1. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    A portable camping version that cost about$150 [aus], apart from the fact these things can't cope with more than 10mph wind, they seem to be a match made in heaven, with some adjustments. After all we can guarantee there is a source of water, salt will need flushing and a 12volt pump is normally required.
    A carry bag [probably not rust resistant enough to stow on a mooring] as they weigh 6kgs, and a snorkel or 2 for air in and exhaust out. also a system of hot water bottle stations for seating areas which could be piped together with shut off valves if desired . The idea of a hot bath after a long tiring passage or just to warm up and relax on a weekend adds a level of comfort you just don't get on a small craft. Anyone tried it or have an opinion on this?
    I haven't invested yet so fire away. Tiny sea creature soup to bathe in anyone?
    I'm just relieved to be not under the moniker of "alering the amas", from my last inauspicious and fraught post, sheesh it didn't even make sense,. A cheap gas alarm for the bilge and the back up of having lpg onboard as an emergency substitute fuel for a 4 stroke adds to the allure.. . cheers
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2018
  2. fredrosse
    Joined: Jan 2005
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    Location: Philadelphia PA

    fredrosse USACE Steam

    My daughter has just such a propane heater near the stream where we were building her house. She bought a galvanized livestock bin, 24 inches x 60 inches, and uses it as a bathtub. Small electric pump thru the propane heater, and a fine bath before we had plumbing in the new house.

    My steamboat burns propane, and many warn against using it because the propane gas is much heavier than air, so if there is a propane leak, it accumulates in the lower portions of the boat, forming a possible explosion hazard. Just be careful, sniff for propane smell in the bilges before lighting anything
     
  3. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    $17aus for a portable 12volt detector, I was thinking of sliding the hot water service in a light frame hanging off the boat a little like a bbq ,thus wind protection required . I would be sticking my nose in the bilge after extended use though, just in case. I'm checking the web for hot seawater bathing, so far it seems safe and therapeutic, thanks for the reply, I think steam boats are wonderful things, regards
     
  4. Ike
    Joined: Apr 2006
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    Location: Washington

    Ike Senior Member

    There are propane fueled marine hot water heaters, but most are a combo of electric and engine cooling water. The engine cooling water is passed through a heat exchanger to heat the water. The smallest ones I have seen are 6 gallons. I have a 6 gallon hot water heater in my RV and it is more than adequate for two of us to shower (separately of course).
     
  5. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Yes,using the heat transfer on the engine for hot water is ideal. My boat is too small for a diesel and outboards run the exhaust through their water. 6 gallons/20 litres sounds manageable, thanks for that
     
  6. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    "System" has implications.
    Hot water bottle stations is an interesting concept.
    Cheap detectors are fraught with false alarms often resulting in disconnection which can lead to explosion and death.

    I have a small, vented Bosch instant hot-water heater on my small craft and it works great.
    It can fill a two man hot-tub, provide endless showers and fill an infinite number of dish washing sinks.
    I feel sure it would meet you hot water bottle needs as well.

    Don't buy cheap, alarmed detectors, they provide a dis-service.
    Propane gas is very similar to gasoline fumes.
    A fail-safe design and installation is necessary to minimize risk.
    Bilge blowers on a four minute timer are also a prudent investment.
    And, if insured, you may want to check-in with your agent prior to install.
     
  7. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    What heater are you running?
     
  8. BlueBell
    Joined: May 2017
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    Location: Victoria BC Canada

    BlueBell Ahhhhh...

    Bosch, I don't remember which model.
    Bought it 20 years ago.
    The choice was vented or un-vented.
    It was $800 Canadian.
    Want me to go look?
     
  9. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Thanks for the reply, yes the last thing I want is a detector that doesn't work, good point. There is no room in my Tremolino Tri for a hot water service in the boat ,I was thinking of setting it up a bit like bbq, hanging off the rear crossbeam opposite the outboard. So the vent in and exhaust out would need snorkels to not blow out the flame . A modern cheap chinese service 12x18x6 inches has a few safety features these days and a stainless water heater,I don't think the pezo will last well though. I want to try heating salt water too, which even after flushing with clean water may butcher an expensive and longer lasting heater , I'd be concerned that the electrics wont handle the sea air , even if is taken home after each use . Still, the level of comfort experienced on the boat is an important 'come back' factor, and hydroponic heating and hot showers and baths would be great. A good quality alarm is worth it if there is any chance fumes can gather. Our local retired policeman blew himself out of his petrol power fishing boat,and survived mainly unscathed,.. I think, regards
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  10. boatymcboatface
    Joined: May 2016
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    Location: brisbane austrailia

    boatymcboatface Junior Member

    a cheap alarm is what you're going to risk your life on???

    I am not a boat designer or shipwright but have asked for advice on here in the past regarding repairs etc but fell I have some expertise to add here being a licensed gas plumber in austrailia. GET A LICENCED GAS PLUMBER TO DO YOUR INSTALL AND CERTIFIE IT SAFE (WITH A CERTIFICATE FOR REGO AND INSURANCE PURPOSES)

    some of the sugestions I have heard hear are dangerous and sound like you will be tempting fate.

    here we go with whats wrong so far

    1# inlet ducts? outlet ducts? #$%@ do not use gas apliances desgined for out doors to be used indoors. ever hear of those people that die from carbon monoxide poising because they were heating there house unconventually( ie using out door bbq's indoors). well at least they died warm I guess. with out going into it there are requirements to meet for ventilation and flueing and yes the austrailian standard code covers caravan and small boat instalation
    2#useing lpg for burner (heater or gas stove) fuel is vapour draw tank lpg for engines is a liquid draw tank. 2 seprate systems working in different ways.
    3#all lpg gas installation must be done by a licened trades man by law you are opening your self up to liability when your mistakes or lack off attention(pc way of saying stupidity) unless connecting a 9kg bbq bottle to a out door bbq DONT TOUCH IT
    4# small boats are exactly that small maybe your asking a bit much of your vessel

    now for all the times people write in and every one replies "get an expert" well this is also one of those times.
    do you get your tax advice from your mates down the pub or do you go and see some one who knows what there doing.

    or dismiss the advice of a professional and we might see you on the tv when you make the news
     
  11. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    Gee boatymcboatface, I don't think you read the original message or the responses properly, I do that too unfortunately, it leads to misunderstandings. beer and all, Still it sounds like you have an interest in safety, fair enough, so do I, I don't think there is much for us to discuss otherwise , anyway the sheer diversity on this site of all things mcboatface make this a fine forum. If you read the OM again you may see your misunderstanding. You could make a motza setting up portable hot water services for each time a family goes camping,a bottle of warm soapy water, an accreditation badge and turn a camping ground into a financial bonanza, after all , just think of the children. You could even tell them in a PC way that they were stupid, irresponsible adults even. If you're father in law is a police officer, I meant no offence, our retired policeman is a good bloke.,Nearly the ugliest aspect of Capitalism is preying on peoples fear for profit , it seems so ingrained, where's the personal ethics don't you think? You seem to be a professional unable to read the instructions, good luck with that and touche', cheers.
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  12. boatymcboatface
    Joined: May 2016
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    Location: brisbane austrailia

    boatymcboatface Junior Member

    why do people who mean no offence have a passive aggressive way about them selfs.

    walking through a caravan park telling people to be compliant if my father in law was a police officer. I'm not sure what this is ment to mean

    like I said

    I wont be giving advice to people and strangers unless they ask for it, ironicaly like in a public forum with a question, if you didn't want people to comment on your question why did you ask it

    I wasn't posting to your original message I was posting to some of the replies and suggestions. and your original post doesn't make a lot of sense either besides the title "lpg hot water systems for boats" talk about posting after beers and the bit about capatilisim and fear for profit has nothing to do with using a licensed person to perform a regulated task. because when done by un qualified people can cause harm and loss to them selfs and others. don't really care if you want to do yourself in more worried about any one who doesn't know your install is dangerous like surrounding boats or people just going about there own business.

    advice is advice and make of it what you will with a pinch of salt don't have a sulk because some one challenged your idea
     
  13. trip the light fandango
    Joined: Apr 2018
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    Location: Rhyll Phillip Island Victoria Australia

    trip the light fandango Senior Member

    I just read your reply again and you're still doing it, if you want to show how knowledgeable you are could you please COMPREHEND THE DISCUSSION FIRST. It would possibly be fairer to say that the question didn't make sense to you, but you thought you should reply without understanding what you were reading, it doesn't really matter. I would have let it slide except you decided you should get a bit narky again while grandly displaying your lack of perception, anyway this isn't doing either of us a service , so bye.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2018
  14. boatymcboatface
    Joined: May 2016
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    Location: brisbane austrailia

    boatymcboatface Junior Member

    dito

    you may be right all i comprehend is that some one is asking for advice installing gas in a boat while being unlicensed. you do your own 240v electrical work aswell I take it
     

  15. fallguy
    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Location: usa

    fallguy Senior Member

    Maybe a little of both of you are right.

    I have mostly avoided this thread. The OP seemed a bit flippant about lpg, but only scolding them for it isn't much help.

    I plan to heat my rig and water with diesel, and use propane for cooking.

    The propane water heaters are heavily used by rvs across the planet. They are subject to wind blowouts and are not made for saltwater or even a salty environment. They get rather rusty even in an rv; although they can serve long lives. The use in saltwater would be short lived and ultrashort with seawater going in them.

    I aim to heat my water and cabin with diesel, but I toyed with the idea of a propane heater on the inside of the boat cabin vented out as Bluebell has; such a heater is only for freshwater from a tank, raw fresh, or watermaker I am sure.
     
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