Low price Catamarans

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by SteveW, Mar 8, 2008.

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  1. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    I am always surprised when these Tiki guys are talking about 'instructions had been ignored' and even 'fundamental flaws' when building their boats without clear drawings and managing changes of original design by emails! Should these emails be transferred to Thai foremen, carpenters, welders - instead of drawings, or...?

    Claiming 'fundamental flaws' - and no proofs and details again, supported by engineering calculations/professional survey. Just opinion of amateur sailor(s), mostly armchair sailors and blog readers (most of them are experts, of course! :) ).

    Again, original Tiki is not an 'ocean' category boat according to RCD/ISO standards, as it does not comply to category 'A' requirements. So why should we discuss compliance of 'modified' boat?
     
  2. RB PowerSailing
    Joined: Aug 2008
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    RB PowerSailing Senior Member

    Tiki again

    I have just seen the blog of Mr. Warren . I agree with him to some points .

    It is correct that we don't have a finishing of an Azimut 60' on our Tiki 38 and even on the T60 . In my opinion that boats they are not mented to a finishing of a luxury modern motor yacht . ( mind the price too : Ferretti 60' ,costs 2.5 millions Euro , T 60 costs 500,000 US$ ) .

    The T 60 is a classic boat , with the interior house boat style , designed by the customer and agreed with him .

    Tiki 38 : who knows something about James Wharram designs , don't expect a luxury finishing inside the 1/2 square meter of the cabin . It is not this the target of the project . Simplicity , easy to use and easy to sail . A very basic interior . keep weight as low as possible ( Warren wants generator and electric motors , air con etc. ad i refused to install these items , and this is why the boat left the yard ; or at least one of the reasons .)

    About Mr. Creed , with had to experience some episodes of strokes and heart attackes in the last years ,overweight to 180 kg , and plan to sailing in a storm ( solo , i guess ) .... this is not realistic to think .

    About myself , sailing in a storm with a Tiki 38 , well i would leave this to Khunian , Dutz , Also Concerned :D :D :D

    When i read this kind of things , sailing in a storm on a Tiki 38 , from persons that got no idea of what is an halyard , as Warren , i start to smile . He should try first some windy day in Pattaya Bay , 1 km from the shore .

    Otherwise buy an armchair and join the team !!

    Remember : an armchair is always safe , even in a Cape Horn storm !


    RB
     
  3. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    Oops! Looks like this guy really has ZERO experience. Electrical propulsion has never been the choice of ocean sailors, but it looks attractive for 'dilettante' reading promotional articles in magazines.
    But he feels himself in position to make conclusions about 'fundamental flaws'...
     
  4. khunian
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    khunian Junior Member

    Do Personal Insults alter the facts?

    Again we start with the snide personal insults from people who are not aware of the experience of the people that they are commenting on. A very childish attempt to divert attention from the facts of the situation.

    As for electrical propulsion - Lagoon have a line of cats that use electric propulsion and many companies see this as the way forward. However, I guess that some people need to get the basics right before they consider moving with the times.
     
  5. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    Well, show us Your experience, anonymous expert! :) And show us the FACTS. First, it would be good to see calculations/test results showing problems with strength of skeg on Creed's Tiki.

    Suggest to read well written paper by world-known expert Nigel Calder in 'Professional Boatbuilder Magazine'. All with numbers and analysis. Then we can discuss the details... Conclusion is simple: there is no savings for most of boats (excerpt displacement boats with high house loads - this is not the case of Tiki!), there are complications and problems with service. Electrical propulsion - just a marketing trick.
    http://www.proboat-digital.com/proboat/20071011/?pg=154 - read 'Conclusions' on page 150-151.

    My conclusion is simple: electrical/hybrid propulsion for seagoing pleasure boat is a choice of dummies Unless it is special solar-powered craft, etc.
     
  6. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Alik Senior Member

    Hope he can bring this boat to NZ - there are limitations on any timber products due to plants quarantine.
     
  7. observer
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    observer New Member

    It's interesting to note that as soon as someone pulls out of their build with RB they are personally attacked by both RB, and his associates.

    The various detractors of RB, throughout this thread, do have a number of valid points. The only people to defend RB appear to be associates, employees or friends. There seem to be no credible client recommendations about finished projects, and specifically no client recommendations regarding boats that have sailed considerable distances. Staff at RB seem to change frequently. They all claim to have vast experience, but there is little proof of their history with sailing (or even boat building) outside their current employment.

    I find it unlikely that any person who has invested a lot of time, energy and money in a project would suddenly back out due to a lack of funds, especially if they had documented the progress publicly. It just doesn't make sense, though I am sure RB will attempt to spin an explanatory (and defamatory) tale. Yes, RB boats generally look well built in photographs. But a structural weakness is not so easy to detect, and can cause death. Regardless of the reasons for the various halted builds, or claims about unsatisfactory builds, what is most off putting to me are the jokes and personal attacks on former clients made by RB and associates. Perhaps RB finds it a joking matter. But it is not a joke to someone entrusting their life, as well as investment, to the builders of a boat.

    I have been researching RB, as well as many other yards, to build my boat. I have tried to keep an open mind, and view from all perspectives. But the personal attacks and insults to existing buyers (even former ones with whom the company has a dispute), and the label of 'armchair' sailors is, to me at least, unprofessional and something I would never want to become involved in.

    I am sure my post, and my choice to remain anonymous, will be duly attacked. After reading the insulting rants, accusations and gossip here, why would I (an observer simply looking to build a boat) want to be bothered by such nonsense? I expect that anyone who has had a difficult experience with the yard or RB (and I am more inclined to believe it now, after seeing RBs behavior) would want to put it behind them. Just as I will now put this thread behind me, and continue my search for a yard elsewhere.
     
  8. or colleagues, respectful of this work, less respectful of anonymous posters defaming Thai boat building industry in general without any reason...:cool:
     
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  9. eastcape
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    eastcape Senior Member

    Why, is the timber in the hull un-treated??
     
  10. observer
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    observer New Member

    That was a fast reply... you must be on here a lot.

    Perhaps I should explain further. Being a colleague means you are not impartial.
     
  11. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Yes, You are right!

    1. Pls look at this http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/g...tastrophic-delamination-new-bertram-63-a.html
    2. Are You from US? Do You know that in US there is no structural standards for pleasure craft? You can get official info on that from ABYC or other organizations involved.

    So what we should say? How we can recommend to build boats in US yards, as they are substandard :D

    There are 'many' anonymous posters here with same identity, defaming whole boatbuilding industry in Thailand. They change nicknames every time when they can not provide PROVEN FACTS.
     
  12. Alik
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    Alik Senior Member

    Last time when I have arrived in NZ with small teak elephant as a souvenir, the customs was about to confiscate it and to fine me. I said that I also had wooden toothpick in my pocket, they smiled and let me go :p
     
  13. eastcape
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    eastcape Senior Member

    Your sense of humour must have distracted the NZ customs authorities from the real issue. :D We are so easily misled down here..:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2009

  14. Alik
    Joined: Jul 2003
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    Location: Thailand

    Alik Senior Member

    To the subject, in Thailand they don't do chemical treatment of timber they use for building boats. AB knows it better, he is local timber expert.
     
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