Looking for software with short learning curve to alter existing design

Discussion in 'Software' started by Buzzard, Sep 3, 2003.

  1. Buzzard
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Location: Parksville, Canada

    Buzzard Junior Member

    This post may be better suited to the Software forum, but I'll try it here. I am working on modifying Ted Brewer's Deer Isle 24 to better suit my needs. I have changed the cabin arrangement to look acceptable in a simple line drawing, but am having trouble with two other changes. I want to raise the topsides by 3” (1 ¾” above the w/l for appearance and 1 ¼” below w/l due to increased weight of machinery and structure). I imagine this change will sort itself out during lofting, but I also want to add tumblehome aft. I am concerned about the appearance of my idea of tumblehome and whether my changes will work with plywood. A simple line drawing of the boat is here .

    I have tried a couple of the software programs recommended in the Software forum, but the leaning curve is steep. Can anyone recommend which software program would best serve my needs for these alterations?
     
  2. duluthboats
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    Buzzard,

    First, maybe we could get Jeff to move your post to start another thread. Welcome to the forum. If you read the stuff in the software area, I think it is mentioned more than a few times that most CAD software will take some time to get up to speed. What you want to do is not as easy as moving the helm from one side to the other. It may effect the design in ways you won’t like. I would consult Ted first thing.

    Gary :D
     
  3. Buzzard
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    Buzzard Junior Member

    Thank-you for the reply, Gary. I am not concerned about any changes except the effect of tumblehome on the design and construction. I exchanged a number of emails with Mr. Brewer a few months ago. He is aware of the weight of the extra machinery, machinery location changes and the boat sitting lower in the water. He suggested I loft the boat directly from the lines to gain the thickness of the bottom planking in height, but this is not enough height for me. He liked (did not dislike) my concept of the cabin but was against tumblehome (ever pulled a salmon over tumblehome?). I asked Mr. Brewer to assist with the tumblehome, but he is retired and did not wish to accept a project.

    I have successfully made substantial weight distribution changes to larger boats in the past and am not concerned about weight distribution - I will solve any weight problems before starting.

    My question should have been more direct - what software will be the easiest to learn and provide me with a method to add tumblehome to the boat; getting the right look and allowing plywood panel construction?

    Thank-you again.
     
  4. duluthboats
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    duluthboats Senior Dreamer

    OK, your way past step 1. Which program is the fastest to learn, is tough because we all learn different. If you’re doing this in 2D, it will be much quicker on paper. In 3D you must first construct a model of the DI 24. That is not a simple thing to do. So enough with the discouragement.

    Because the DI 24 is a hard chine boat there might be a shareware program or a low end one that will do just the hull. If you want to do the whole boat then the easiest for me was Rhino. I’ve had it for a year and I’m still learning. You don’t need to be a genius to learn CAD, (I’m proof) but you have to be persistent and it will take time.

    Gary :D
     
  5. Willallison
    Joined: Oct 2001
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    Willallison Senior Member

    From what you've said so far, I gather that you already have the complete set of Brewer plans...?
    If you have, then I'll go with Gary's reply - easier to make the changes on paper. Even from scratch, it would be WAY faster to draw the boat by hand than to learn how to use a cad program before starting work on the design....
    If not, then there should be plenty of designs around that will more closely suit your needs, without the need for such major alteration....
    If you insist on altering the Brewer plans, then Hullform (look in the free software section of the boatdesign.net directoy) might do it for you. It's pretty basic, but it's easy to learn....
     
  6. Buzzard
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Buzzard Junior Member

    buzzard!

    Yes, I do have a complete set of Brewer plans, and am also making the changes by hand. The reason for wanting to do a digital plan is that I'm not sure how my changes will look in 3d. (complete lack of visualization skills :))

    The Brewer plans include a high shear version where the shear is raised 4 1/8" at the bow and almost 8" at the transom. I don't like the look, but it suggests to me that a higher shear will not cause problems.

    Thank-you for the Hullform recommendation. I will try it out.
     
  7. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Well, I'm not sure how good Hullform is for 3D visualisation - it's a long time since I played with it...
    Let us know how you get on...
     
  8. Polarity
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Polarity Senior Member

    I put Ted's 45ft Miami from paper to 3d Rhino, stretched it 10% and combined it with a fin keel. I did this from a standing start with Rhino. Learning Rhino from scratch + putting in the boat was probably about 350 hrs. I then spent a lot more time working on the interior etc etc.

    I originally paid someone to do the hull but by the time the result came it I had done enough with Rhino to know that it was not good, so it got scrapped and I re-did the whole lot.

    You can see the results in my gallery. Also if you look at the quick hull in rhino thread:
    http://boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1401

    You can see that if you put a background (scanned) image and trace the lines rather than make them up you can produce the hull shape very quickly (that is the benefit of about 50 hrs of doing it wrong!)

    Also you can download rhino and try it out with only a limited number of saves. this is just the best evaluation policy!

    Let me know if you need a hand!

    Paul
     
  9. Buzzard
    Joined: Sep 2003
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    Buzzard Junior Member

    Thank-you for the suggestion Paul. I did try Hullform on Will's suggestion, but I don't believe it will give the visual results I am after. 350 hours is acceptable from my perspective - I just finished 300+ hours converting my 1000+ page web site from straight html to Cold Fusion, so I have the time to learn something new :).

    The hull will be exactly as drawn by Mr. Brewer, with the exception of raising the shear approximately 3" and adding tumblehome. My goal is therefore aesthetics rather than trying to learn the nuances of a good underwater shape.

    Thank-you for the comments and the kind proposal – I will give Rhino some patient hours.
     
  10. ludesign
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    ludesign Senior Member

    Check out TouchCAD. It has a modern mainstream user interface, does hull fairing, and comes with very powerful integrated unfolding features. If you want to see some seriously fast modeling, download the Yacht design movie from the TouchCAD web site ( http://www.touchcad.com ). You will see: a hull being drawn, deck, cabin, transom, lines, unfolding OpenGL visualization, basic marine calculations, some internal parts, all in less than 20 minutes.

    /Claes
     
  11. Polarity
    Joined: Dec 2001
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    Polarity Senior Member

    etiquete (?)

    ahhh that would be Touchcad from "Lundstrom Design" then Mr Lundstrom..:)

    No complaints and am downloading right now, but it is usual to declare an "interest" when touting your own company!

    Paul...

    PS
    One thing from your site though, whats the restriction on the demo version - I might have missed it but I dont think it said?

    -----edit-----
    Ah Ok there it is, no saves....
     
  12. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Re: etiquete (?)

    No save and print.
     

  13. nero
    Joined: Aug 2003
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    nero Senior Member

    TouchCAD referal from user

    I am not the programmer of TouchCAD, but, it was my choice after researching the marine CAD programs I could find on the net. I am still content with the capabilities.

    If you want unwrapping power, this program does chines with chimes.

    I bought it because it has Adobe Illustrator like ideas. Control points are on the curve. Extrudes and duplications can be done with out a lot of tool changing.

    It is the least expensive as a bonus. It also runs on all Mac OS's.

    One has to understand the metaphor of how things are done, however. Once that clicks in your head, drawing ideas flow.

    It could use more of an Adobe Illustrator 3.0 like interface. (this was the perfect drawing program) Understand that a new version is coming out soon.

    It does an excellent job of reverse engineering also.
     
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