Looking For Ferro Cement Material

Discussion in 'Materials' started by tequilaranch, Apr 10, 2012.

  1. tequilaranch
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    Location: Cleveland

    tequilaranch New Member

    Hello

    I am looking where to buy Ferro Cement Mix in Cleveland, Ohio.

    Thank You
     
  2. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    Ferrocement is a composite of a metal lattice structure and some plaster formulation. You need to specify what type of plaster depending on the design. The aggregate, proportions of portland cement, additives, etc. will vary and it is up to the designer to decide.
     
  3. tequilaranch
    Joined: Apr 2012
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    tequilaranch New Member

    Gonzo, I have a Ferro Cement boat. I am looking to repair the hull. Correct me if I am wrong; When the boat was built it was sprayed with a "Ferro Cement Material/Mix". The material came in bags. I just want to buy the same type of material. Its great material until you run in to something and damage the hull.

    Thank You

    Joe
     
  4. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    They are usually troweled on, not sprayed. Ferrocement as I explained before is a composite of metal and plaster. Metal lattice can not be sprayed with any existing equipment. The dry material that gets mixed with water has a specific formulation for the design. You can measure the diameter of the aggregate to match it. Also, there are patching mixes that promote better adhesion.
     
  5. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Ferro is a process, though it does usually require a special mortar formulation, so both of you are right to a degree. I've never seen a sprayed ferro build. The armature is generally to tight a mesh, to get sprayed mortar into well enough.

    Contact Darr Palmer at www.smallyachts.com. He's a member here (Darr) and though taken quite beating over his opinions of ferro build methods, he's not alone, though in North America, you should expect a pitiful reception to ferro in general.

    Ferro damage assessment is one of the major reasons it's not widely liked, which leads to repairs that often aren't sufficient. Without xrays, which are of dubious value too, you're really guessing as to the extent of the damage with ferro.

    What type of damage do you have and can you post pictures? Also welcome aboard.
     
  6. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    THE GOOD OLD DAYS !!
    Ferro is nothing special thats been the whole idea of it over the years !Simple easy and if the hull gets damaged just knock the damaged cement and sand out !! re fair the damagesd wire armature and replaster the outside first with quick drying mix and then the inside and float off on the next tide !!
    The outside could have been plastered first then the inside sprayed and troweled at the same time but the mix would have been the same for each just one a little thicker than the other !! some guys even tried using glass fibre but it harder to work with and has to have a special glass that the cement wont attack the glass and break it down over time . Plus the strands need to be a little shorter than what comes out of a standard chopper gun so you use a 4 blade chopper instead of a 3 blade and the strands are just a little better to get the mix into and though a multi layered chicken wire frame !!! I have a friend that does spray concrete thats glass reinforced and the alkaline is the thing that had to be got over !! Nothing is impossible !!!. He makes anything from huge building panels with steel frames down to Sink and bench tops in houses and anything you can think of !! :?::D
     
  7. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    go on the cruisers forum ferro cement pages, they are very helpful and ferro boat owners. you can get yourself the premium portland cement powder and plastering sand, use a cement etching product to get a successful bond. the previous owner of my boat said he used epoxy filler to repair small knocks and gouges.
     
  8. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    i thought it was plaster, it does not have aggregate in it.
     
  9. tunnels

    tunnels Previous Member

    Sorry but have been able to spray concrete for a long long time !!,can even have other things mixed with the concrete . This is 2012 !!
    With alkaline resistant glass and a converted Fibreglass chopper gun head it is just using a differant material and a slightly differant technique but the idea is close to doing FRP work !!
    Can spray and make almost anything !! boats is just one in the great long list !! :?::D:p

    [http://www.power-sprays.co.uk/ps38a_grc_combi_spray_station_for_grc.pdf
    url]http://www.power-sprays.co.uk/sprayguns.htm[/url] This is just a couple in a long long list !!
     
  10. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
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    gonzo Senior Member

    I didn't say you can't spray the mortar. I said you can't spray ferrocement.
     
  11. Steve W
    Joined: Jul 2004
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    Steve W Senior Member

    Brendan, you are correct, there is no aggregate in the mortar mix, clean washed sand, portland cement and addatives such as pozzolan. It is also NOT sprayed, while you have been able to spray mortar for many years, it does not work for this application as it takes a bit of effort with trowels to work it through the densely packed mesh armature.
    Joe, you most likely wont find a suitable pre bagged mix these days so will need to mix your own, i dont remember the exact mix but it should be available from Ferroboats. The cement, sand and addatives will be available from any company that specialized in concrete supplies. The repairs are generally as simple as knocking out the crumbled mortar, straighten out the armature, wash out any loose material, apply a bonding agent, some use a chemical agent, some just a simple cement and water grout, then apply your mortar with a trowel and finish with a sponge, when the outside is set (not cured) knock off the nubs on the inside and apply a cement was as a tie coat and paster the inside. Very nice materials to work with.

    Steve.
     
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  12. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Steve's got it, as I mentioned the armature, is usually (if designed properly) quite dense, so you have to pack in the mortar, typically by trowel. No spraycrete mixture will get in it.

    I disagree (as well as insurance companies and professional surveyors) in that it's an easy repair and damage assessment task. This material cracks like an egg shell and these cracks can be well beyond the impact site. Finding these and grinding/breaking back to these areas is mandatory for a good repair, which is why it's not an easy fix.

    I do agree, it's a easy new hull shell build and enjoyable, if you have a knack for trowel work. Building the armature is a tedious, finger cutting affair, but the plastering part is enjoyable.
     
  13. Sand crab
    Joined: Feb 2011
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    Sand crab Junior Member

    plaster is not plaster

    I've read a little about this and I want to clarify what has been said for the members. Ferrocement does not have plaster in it. Plaster is a gypsum based product while ferrocement is a ummm cement based product. The process is called plastering but it has nothing to do with actual plaster. You cannot go to the store and buy plaster for your boat. This would be bad. The closest standard bag mix stuff you can buy off the shelf would be mortar mix but even that is probably not exactly the right stuff. FWIW Mortar mix is basically concrete without the aggregate.
    Did I get that right?
     
  14. whitepointer23

    whitepointer23 Previous Member

    correct. it probably gets called plaster because you use good quality brick layers sand , the same stuff is used by plasterers when they render walls. look up richard brooks website, he is the guru of ferro construction.
     

  15. PAR
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    PAR Yacht Designer/Builder

    Plastering is a process and not dependent on the material being slathered in place. The guys that trowel out concrete pools are called plasters, not pool trowelers. The same is true of dry wall finishers, neither of which use plaster.
     
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