looking for a stock plywood cat design!

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Briggsm, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    Which of you will pull up the mainsail? The anchor?? Clean the inside??? Scrub the decks????? No one can deny that bigger boats have heavier gear and are more work to sail and maintain.

    I don't like galley up designs on smaller boats because the bridgedeck area is limited and you end up with a small galley and small seating area. And what do you put in the hulls instead?

    It works OK on bigger boats and on charter boats where 4 ensuite cabins are the norm. You can read more of my thoughts on my FAQs page of my website

    I see you live in the opposite corner of Florida to Ft Lauderdale, where Ric keeps his Mirage. Even so it is probably worth going to see it before deciding on building any boat. He is a very friendly guy and has two young children who love the boat.

    Please email me (not a pm) and I'll put you in touch

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  2. Jster
    Joined: Jul 2010
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    Location: Crestview, FL

    Jster New Member

    Richard,

    Thanks for your response. I would imagine we would both do those things...as we work as a team, in all aspects of life.

    Actually the galley up request was Briggs' in all our conversations, he just hadn't expressed it on the forum, so I thought it should be out there. Also...I don't think people would make the same recommendations to what they might imagine as a cruising individual or a couple compared to a family with three children. We'll need enough room for them to do their schooling, and for five people to be comfortable. And of course, additional load capacity...for instance, I like your Eclipse design, but it states that there is enough capacity for a cruising couple, which might not be enough for a family of 5. So we need to be concerned about that to plan for offshore cruising. Finally, building a boat is building an asset, something we could either utilize after we return from our trip as a day charter vessel, or sell. There is a lot to be gained in building a slightly larger boat, at least I believe so. I don't want something unmanageable, but certainly there is a middle ground. 34 foot does sound about like what I was looking at.

    Thanks for the offer to connect us to Ric, we'll email you about it. That sounds wonderful.
     
  3. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    Jster: Start looking at the 38 foot range, seriously. You can't find what you're looking for in any 34ft (10 meter) cat.

    This is even more true if you are looking for offshore cruising. No way in hell you'll ever fit all those people, provisions for them, schooling, clothing, toys (snorkels or something), cookware and be able to prepare food for them in a boat under 38ft LOA.

    Don't make a mistake. Get on some boats before you buy anything, even plans. Go to a boat show (Miami is best, but that is over for this year). Get on board catamarans. Go to the guys at the brokerage that runs catamarans.com then take a ride to Ft Lauderdale with all the kids. Get on some boats. Get on boats in the low 30's LOA then get on some in the high 30's LOA.

    You will never be able to do what you are looking to do on a low 30's cat.

    Source? I've owned a 34' cat and there would be no hope for you on it.
     
  4. Richard Woods
    Joined: Jun 2006
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    Richard Woods Woods Designs

    You are right of course. I haven't had children and rarely sail with them. But I'd have thought you'd want the biggest saloon ie "living room" you could get??

    Having said that, we just sold our Romany to a couple with two children, guessing boy 9 and girl 11? who plan to take a year out and cruise the USA, Bahamas and Caribbean.

    Size of boat and loading capacity depend very much on where you plan to sail and how long you plan to be on board (full time or will you have a home base?). Certainly a family sailing to the Caribbean from Europe will need a bigger boat than the same family starting in the USA

    I guess at some stage budget and build time will rear their ugly heads

    I look forward to your email

    Richard Woods of Woods Designs

    www.sailingcatamarans.com
     
  5. rayaldridge
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    rayaldridge Senior Member

    One thing you may want to think about is the sad fact that if you build a big boat, you may be looking at years of build time. How many people will work on the build? How much time can they give it? Can you afford to hire in labor?

    The point I'm getting at is that by the time you finish, your children will probably be a lot older.
     
  6. BriggsMonteith
    Joined: May 2010
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    Location: Choctaw Beach, Florida

    BriggsMonteith Junior Member

    Catbuilder, great suggestions about getting onto some boats, we're definitely hoping to do that. What 34' cat did you own?

    And thanks Richard for your suggestions and perspective. A saloon is important, but we spend a lot of time cooking, too, and really enjoy the "breakfast bar" aspect of having a galley up. Still, counter space is great, too, and we'll be balancing both. Any suggestions about capacity?

    Rayaldridge, the growth is part of what we're considering. Right now, the kids are 3, 6, and 9, and they are very used to sharing space, in fact, all pile into bed together at night. But if it takes us three-four years to build and go, they will be much older, and only get older while we are cruising. So we can't make plans based on how easily they share space now, but must consider that if they're teenagers, or pre-teens, they'll want more space. And in the travelogues of cruising families, that often seems to be a reason they STOP cruising, so the kids can have more space/privacy (and also friends, schooling, etc.)

    But the length of the build and expense of it are things we have to weigh against the advantages of more space, so we're debating it all. We may find what we want by tweaking the design of a smaller boat. But I'm thinking 32-34 for a minimum range. I don't think we'll go up to a 38 foot, I think that might be too big a project for a busy family to undertake and expect to finish in a few years.

    To answer your question Richard, we won't have a home base when we go...we'll be leaving where we are now and go full time, without having a house or family in the area to come back to. We're in Crestview largely because of the economy and because I have a good job here, we have no family here and don't really plan on staying here forever. There is little work for Briggs here, though, so it's a balance. I mean work outside the family, he's the primary caretaker of the kids, so has to work around their needs and demands, and that's a lot of work! We might spend the last year before we cruise away with a few smaller trips/shakedowns, downsizing, etc.

    As far as how many people will work on the boat...Briggs will have the most time, and I'll help nights and weekends. We also hope to involve the kids some, and they love the idea of building a boat. We have a friend who will probably come help for chunks of time (I imagine he'll come a few times for a couple of weeks each time, and he's a very serious worker. He's excited about us building a boat and used to live aboard his own sailboat). And we've considered hiring a part time helper...we'll have to see if that's realistic down the road.

    Briggs, I've hijacked your thread, maybe you have a perspective to share?

    Also, now that all you boat designers and advisors know what our needs are a little more, are there any specific boat designs you would point us to?
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2010
  7. cavalier mk2
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The other thing to consider is that those bodies will weigh more and eat and drink more too as they grow, plus you'll have the weight of live aboard items. It is hard to fault Richard's Flicka 34 but for your size of family a chined bigger version would be even better. a 1.5 ton payload can disappear pretty fast! The Horstman Tri Star cat 36, and 38 are well thought out options but what about buying a proven large cruising tri such as a Searunner 40 or Cross 38 fixing it up and start sailing now? A family out of California kept at it in their Cross 40 for years. These larger boats (tristars too) can have the capacity you need for less cost and with the longer waterlines sometimes more speed. In 3-4 years instead of just launching you could be anywhere you want to go.
     
  8. Briggsm
    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Briggsm Junior Member

    Thanks everyone for the input,
    I have to say that I'm not all that well versed in multihulls, as a kid I raced hobie 16s and 18s a bit and sailed a stilleto 27 a good bit as well, but I don't know alot about larger cruising multis. We are going to start to try and look at some boats in person to try and get a feel for them.

    As for the building, I am(or was until the economy tanked) a boat builder with more than 10 years experience, so I think I have an idea of how much work is going to be involved. I'd rather spend 3,000 hours building something than1500 hours fixing problems that I've inherited from somone else, also in building a boat we can spend our budget over a several year span rather than coughing it all up at once. I've owned several cruising boats and done fairly extensive cruising and would be ecstatic about a clean slate.
    Peace
    Briggs
     
  9. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    Location: TO

    ThomD Senior Member

    Oram had a cat or two in the size you are looking at, and lots of the larger ones for ply build, He mostly builds in cored panels but will provide drawing for ply constructions also. There are a number of builders in Oz who have good kit panel builds for the size of stuff you want to make. Almost worth a temporary move. Just the time saved stirring epoxy clockwise is worth the relocation!
     
  10. jamez
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    jamez Senior Member

    Orams boats are cool. particularly like the front cockpit on the Mango and his concept of adding sailing length without altering other parameters and starting a new design spiral.

    Richard Woods has a number of proven designs which could fit the bill, BUT a few alternatives:

    How about the waller 11 - has a galley up option, or his V hulled 35.
    http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/wal1100.html
    http://www.wallerdesign.com.au/cs35.html

    Easy designs seem to have made some happy Aussies
    http://www.easycatamarans.com.au/

    And Bernd Kohler hasd a bunch of designs that aren't at the front of his website. The Seagull http://www.ikarus342000.com/Seagullpage.htm
    might fit the bill.

    I take my hat off to anyone who can build a boat this size in their spare time. My 25'tri build is big enough for me.
     
  11. ThomD
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    ThomD Senior Member

    "his concept of adding sailing length without altering other parameters and starting a new design spiral."

    I can't tell you the number of designers that have had that concept at one time or another. I'm not sure it really makes it in the marketplace for one reason or another. Even the station wagon gave way to the mini van.
     
  12. jamez
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    jamez Senior Member

    I'd hazard a guess and say Fashion. The reason it may be ignored is that the end result looks a bit narrow and under-rigged for the LOA in comparison with other contemporary designs. I've seen any number of 30 - 40 foot B/deck cats over here sporting 3 to 5 foot stern extentions. With the Mango its already built in :)

    Also I have to admire Bob's think outside the box approach to design, even if I don't find some of them aesthetically appealing. Some of the new Slims and Motor-sail designs are very interesting, although similar concepts have been visited previously by earlier designers.

    http://boboramdesign.wordpress.com/40-slim/

    http://boboramdesign.wordpress.com/45-cape-leveque/
     
  13. ThomD
    Joined: Mar 2009
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    ThomD Senior Member

    Slim I like the idea of, though I wonder if I really need a slip cat. I thought it might be the next big thing, but then I thought there is some resistence to multis, add water ballast... Also I have already bailed on one project due to the cost of a carbon spar, which is optional here, but I think he likes it for this design.

    I'm a long time admirer of the G32 design as a trailerable multi, and Bob did one of those in a three length. Jan Gougeon is considering a three length in tortured ply, and I have a design for a simiilar boat, but I can't quite get it to work. Mine has gotten shorter still and there comes a point when you just invented the Jarcat. :)
     
  14. northerncat
    Joined: Jan 2007
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    northerncat Senior Member

    whilst i have never owned a 34 ft cat i have seen one of peter snells easy 32's and these would do all you hope, i have owned and built one of his bigger designs an easy 37, which took me 2 years of part time(as i was full time employed) boat building from start to finish.
    sean
     

  15. jamez
    Joined: Feb 2007
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    jamez Senior Member

    Hi Sean, would be interested in some pics if you have any and a rough idea what she cost to build.
     
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