Looking for a 12ft boat that will do it all

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by ir0nma1den, Apr 16, 2015.

  1. ir0nma1den
    Joined: Apr 2015
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    ir0nma1den Junior Member

    Hello there,

    I am fairly new to plywood boat construction though I have built a 1 sheet Hannu Sampan .

    This time I would like to do it bigger. Here are my requirements:
    • Car toppable
    • Be able to use sails, oars, and a small outboard
    • hold 2-3 people
    • have 2 rowing/sculling positions
    • cheap to build

    I have been looking a 2-3 sheet 12 foot skiffs. These seem to meet most of my requirements. I am no sailor by any means. I will mostly use this on the New River and a local lake in my area. The New River can get fairly shallow in some areas, so a low draft would be an added bonus. I intend to use exterior grade plywood and epoxy/fiberglass cloth from US Composites.

    The Summer Breeze looks promising.

    Hannu's 12 ft skiff also looks good.

    Lastly, the Bateau Flat Skiff 12 looks good, but is it worth getting the plans? and could this be outfitted for oars, sails, and an outboard?
     
  2. johnhazel
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    johnhazel Senior Member

    Maybe go longer and narrower than the 12 ft skiff. You might look at 16-18ft canoes with rowing stations and small axillary sails. At these longer lengths, it's easier to get the shallow draft and they need less drive which allows smaller sail and daggerboard. Take a look at piroges for a build it yourself option. Also being narrower they can store easier too. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/

    For shallow water and small lakes a version with less rocker might be best.
    http://duckworksmagazine.com/05/designs/applegate/zydeco/zp-2.gif
    http://www.louisianasportsman.com/classifieds/pics/p1330793645496546.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2015
  3. peterAustralia
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

    having looked at a few rowboats, you must have seen by now that most rowboats of 12ft lenght are about 4ft wide. 4ft is a good width.

    For two rowing positions, 12ft is a fraction too short. Forget about a second rowing station, it aint going to happen

    I can just fit two rowing stations but my boat is 13.5ft x 4ft. I looked at all three designs you posted, all look good. As to bottom panel width notice that all three have a small amount of flare, bottom panel is 2ft 9 in Hannus boat for example. This creates a stable boat, but wont be a fast rower. I prefer a boat with a bit more flare and a slightly narrower bottom, depends what you want.. for stability go for one of the above designs, if your interested in rowing for fun, go for something with a narrower bottom and a longer boat, say 13ft.

    Here is an example of a faster boat, still simple, the weekend skiff
    http://www.eskimo.com/~mdevour/theboat.html

    another 12ft rowboat
    http://www.boatplans.dk/boat_plans.asp?id=18

    please note that Hannu's boats are just offsets, they are not building plans, his 12ft boat looks fine, but there is not detailed plans.

    Talk about bottom panel width. Hannus boat, and summer breeze have a bottom panel width of at least 2ft 9 = 840mm. 12ft boat from bateau.com is even wider at over 3ft = 1000mm. I can tell this visually. My boat has a bottom panel widht of 660mm. Now mine is probably too narrow for you, as it is more optimised for rough weather and optimised for speed. Mine at 660=too narrow for you, FL12 by bateau.com=1000mm (too wide), Hannu 12=840mm = OK, Summer Breeze = approx 840mm = OK. QT skiff by Jim Mikalak = 790mm = very OK (I measured it)

    I think the 12ft from bateau.com is going to be slow. Slow and stable. If that is what you want, then that is fine, but slow and stable. I would put this one last



    Summer breeze and Hannu's boat are very similar, summer breeze would have more detailed plans, but you have to pay a modest price (smart in my opinion). So of the three you mentioned I would go for Summer Breeze.

    However, what boat best suits you
    I think the QT skiff by Jim Mikalak
    http://duckworksbbs.com/plans/jim/qt_skiff/index.htm

    It is one foot longer, and 3 inches narrower, but still simple. He makes good plans, (I have bought some)

    I think this is a better boat for you, still stable, but faster and a better rower. The extra foot allows for a front rowing station, the bottom panel is a couple inches narrower and will go faster, but is still stable enough to stand up in the boat.

    So. I would definately go with QT skiff by Jim Mikalak. (assuming you want a good rower, easy to build, but is still stable)

    Other options
    Julie skiff by Gavin Atkin (free plans) - 15ft x 4ft (faster rower, great boat, more work though - I like it)
    http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/09/designs/julie/index.htm

    Seagull skiff by John Welsford
    http://www.jwboatdesigns.co.nz/plans/seagull/

    For your needs, I still go back to QT Skiff
     
  4. peterAustralia
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

  5. ir0nma1den
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    ir0nma1den Junior Member

    I was originally looking at these canoe-like boats but the length was initially offputting. I drive a 3 series BMW and have never racked something over 8 feet. I am slowly warming up to the idea of longer boats. Another reason I like these canoe-like boats is that they are modular. I can build another with a friend and create a catamaran platform.

    Could I rack a 15ft or 16ft boat safely?
     
  6. rasorinc
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    rasorinc Senior Member

  7. ir0nma1den
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    ir0nma1den Junior Member

    Thanks for the lengthy post! I think if I spring for something over 12ft the jimmy skiff from CLC would be my choice. Of course I would be using cheaper materials than what they specify.
     
  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    We must assume that the designer of a ship uses the materials needed to withstand the stresses to which the vessel is subjected. It is likely that the design is made with a margin of safety but use cheaper materials than those specified in the project can be dangerous for many reasons. I would not.
     
  9. peterAustralia
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

    I had a look at Jimmy Skiff by CLC, not only the photos, but the lines also (use google images to see the lines). Its a nice boat, nice lines, a nice compromise row/sail boat, you could do a lot worse

    Cartopping your boat, sounds hard, but aint. I use a wood rack which goes onto my roof racks, I put wheels on my boat (on the transom), makes it way easier to move around. You can get good cheap pneumatic wheels by buying an el-cheapo 30 dollar removalist trolley. Keep the wheels, throw away the trolley.

    The smartest way I have seen (better than mine), is take an aluminium ladder, but the wheels on that (bolt an axle on). The ladder slides on the roof-rack, boat goes on the ladder. That way you move your boat around by rolling it upside down. Trust me,,, man handling a 45kg (100 pound) boat is going to pi** you off very very quickly. Been there done that.

    To move the boat, just pick up the ladder (the non wheel end) and move your boat, easy. It also protects your boat as you slide the ladder over the roof-racks. Me, I slide my boat over the roof-racks, does not affect me as my boat is workman like, not flashy and nice, my method would damage a flashy pretty boat

    Here is my boat, lenght is OK for you, but bottom panel is too narrow for you (its optimised for rough weather rowing), my boat is a rowboat, it wont sail. Notice the wheels. Note that I have upgraded to a solid steel axle, and I have attached the axle to the boat using strips of metal and screwed the strips in (metal strips fold over). I keep the wheels on permanently. It looks weird rowing around with a boat the 2 wheels on it, but it allows me to have a very capable rough weather rowboat that I can move via car-topping, and not need an expensive trailer. Please note the ladder method is better than mine (wheels are same though)

    http://www.tacking-outrigger.com/q7.html

    note photos are early, only one shows the wheel and axle, wheels are now a permanent feature. One downside,, I go rowing, people take f**ing photos all the time, I should charge for that I reckon.

    Sorry, cant find the link to the guy that uses the aluminum ladder with pneumatic wheels method. It was very very cool. If you ask at wbf they could direct you. Jimmy skiff looks like a nice all round boat, sail area a fraction on the big side, maybe a smaller sprit sail is better, in case ur a distance from shore and the wind picks up quick, you need to get the sail down quick. For the local lake should be fine, for the Maine coast in a squall could be problematic
     
  10. peterAustralia
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    peterAustralia Senior Member

    extra 80 to 100 dollars or so for better quality ply is worth it. You only need 3 sheets. You dont need best of the best, but good quality stuff. The extra 100 dollars is worth it
     
  11. Builderjeff
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    Builderjeff Junior Member

    here you will find plans reviews on boat plans, and materials. check out the plywood selection. I am looking for a similar build, something easy to build, and maintain, and something I can use everyday. this is what I am leaning towards. http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=FL12#.VS_QYPnF-gM

    http://www.bateau.com/proddetail.php?prod=RB16#.VS_QkvnF-gM

    I live close to the ocean and wouldn't need to put on top of a car. I have been building boats my whole life, the 12footer is the first link i showed you. i like this build because i know its going to be great. I am thinking about something a little more advanced. I look forward to see what you ended up with. I am always happy to answer question about building as well.
     
  12. ir0nma1den
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    ir0nma1den Junior Member

    That Flat Skiff 12 caught my eye too.

    I really like Selway-Fisher sail dinghy designs. All their 12ft versions seem to fit my requirements.

    Stornoway
    Skylark
    Highlander


    Has anyone built any of these boats? How easy are they? Can they be built in a weekend or two with two pairs of hands? Cost?
     
  13. Builderjeff
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    Builderjeff Junior Member

    I can not say for the Selway-Fisher, I am partial for the Flat skiff because of its ease of build, and usability of the boat. It can be build quick if you follow the directions. this site has a set by step tutorial on how easy the boat is to build. check it out, http://bateau2.com/howto/sg101.php
     
  14. ir0nma1den
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    ir0nma1den Junior Member

    I have decided on Bateau's Flat Skiff 12 since it will be cheap and quick to build. I figure I can modify it to accept a mast and a removable rudder.
     

  15. Petros
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    Petros Senior Member

    you can not have a boat that does all those things well. boats that row well are narrow and long, boat that sail well are wide. There are boats you can row, sail and power, but they do none of them well. so decide what you want the boat to do most or best, and than pick a design for that purpose, and just live with the poor performance in the other modes.

    cheap plywood from a big box store is about $15 a sheet, heavy and full of defects, it can be used on boats (I have used it), but I have also bought 3 and 4 mm (1/8" and 3/16") imported marine grade plywood at $15 a sheet when it goes on sale. Not as high a quality as the European or USA made marine plywood, but still excellent for the money and very inexpensive to use. Hopefully you can find a place that sells marine ply near by and can check in regularly to find the stuff they are closing out.

    you might also consider a skin-on-frame hull, those are very light and cheap to build. I have built many skin-on-frame kayaks and sailing dingys, they typically cost less than $200 to build, require little or no plywood, and weight 20 to 30 lbs for a one man kayak size hull (very easy to car top). Even a two person hull with sails and rudder should not weigh more than about 80 lbs.

    Good luck
     
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