Look at What Happens to Peaceful Protesters in the States

Discussion in 'All Things Boats & Boating' started by CatBuilder, Sep 24, 2011.

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  1. hoytedow
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    hoytedow Carbon Based Life Form

    This one is my favorite. :p
     
  2. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Protecting public property , protecting public safety, protecting small business and enforcing laws to benefit the people will always be a law enforcement judgement call.

    When I see peaceful sit in protesters being pepper sprayed I can only conclude that the law enforcement authorities made a bad decision and that they must be reeducated . It looks very bad
     
  3. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    I would have just run over the lot of them with a few tanks.

    Some published discussion for California Law enforcement agencies:

    CROWD MANAGEMENT
    AND
    CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE GUIDELINES
    March 2003

    "In the United States all people have the right of free speech and assembly guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Federal Constitution and California State Constitution. Law enforcement recognizes the right of free speech and actively protects people exercising that right.
    The rights all people have to march, demonstrate, protest, rally, or perform other First Amendment activities comes with the responsibility to not abuse or violate the civil and property rights of others. The responsibility of law enforcement is to protect the lives and property of all people."

    "When it becomes necessary to control the actions of a crowd that constitutes an unlawful assembly, the commitment and responsibility of law enforcement is to control lawfully, efficiently, and with minimal impact upon the community. A variety of techniques and tactics may be necessary to resolve a civil disobedience incident. Only that force which is objectively reasonable may be used to arrest violators and restore order."

    "Nonlethal chemical agents, properly deployed by trained law enforcement personnel, are designed to
    cause temporary discomfort. The application of nonlethal chemical agents, including oleoresin capsicum (OC), has proven effective in a wide variety of civil disobedience situations. Use of nonlethal chemical agents during civil disobedience may be reasonable depending on the totality of the circumstances. Each agency should consider when, where, and how nonlethal chemical agents may be deployed."

    http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/CrowdMgtGuidelines.pdf
     
  4. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    or you could start a recall petition ( I think you only need something like 30k signatures or something like that ) against the mayor and the governor, like we did in Denver, because it is ultimately they who authorize these kind of actions to be taken. Sure its the cop in the street who can make a really bad descission as well but the riot squad is all on the city officials who authorize or ask for it. Even if it doesn't work and they retain orifice it costs them a fortune and is a whopping pain in the ***. They pretty much admitted they spent in Denver alone something like 6+m dollars on the cops and the protesters. Screwed up the police budget completely and now they are begging the ole Gov for more. At just about the same time he's fighting a recall petition and facing having to run a whole new campaign to stay in orifice.

    Yesterdays rally was about the most cop free I've seen in a long time. Wonder why.
     
  5. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Knock it of ya' bonehead. If the police department cant educate the powers of persuasion and crowd control into their pot bellied police officers, then their only recourse is pepper spray crowd control.

    When non lethal crowd control fails , will your ham fisted police department call in Americas technical prowess to deploy Predator drones against college kid sit ins ? The Department of Homeland Security ??

    Have the blockheads in change of the public security ever heard of the KENT State students ?

    By using aggressive tactics again kids , you play with fire and will be remebered with distain in history. The rest of the world sits in front of their TVs observing how , nuclear armed, DEBT rich, overfed , poorly educated American knuckle daggers deal with internal dissent.
     
  6. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    I wasn't there- were you?

    The first level of trespass is the decision to censure the activity of the protestors by bringing the demonstration to a close by arrest.
    The level of force used by the law enforcement officers has to be postured over whether the initial action is valid given the constitution constraint of the demonstration.

    If the action is valid. (the arrests)
    I would question the authorities in charge if the force brought to bare was several levels over that which was required to implement the prerogatives of the enforcement action.

    If batons were used- I would agree with you.

    "When it becomes necessary to control the actions of a crowd that constitutes an unlawful assembly, the commitment and responsibility of law enforcement is to control lawfully, efficiently, and with minimal impact upon the community. A variety of techniques and tactics may be necessary to resolve a civil disobedience incident. Only that force which is objectively reasonable may be used to arrest violators and restore order."
    http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/CrowdMgtGuidelines.pdf


    Why weren't the protestors simply gathered up bodily and tossed in the wagon- I don't know.
    If I had been witness to the entire demonstration- I could judge. Failing that I do not have sufficient information to say.
    Do you?

    As to this:

    "The rest of the world sits in front of their TVs observing how , nuclear armed, DEBT rich, overfed , poorly educated American knuckle daggers deal with internal dissent."

    I couldn't care less.

    My assessment is based on what I can gather from observation of events.

    That is ONE level of force escalation was used over simple arrest.
    Was this required?
    I don't know.

    I evoked Tiananmen square to demonstrate that condition where to any observer- the police action was by no measure justified.

    I cannot make the same judgement on what I can gather from the information I currently have on this case in California.
    Can you?
     
  7. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    Odd that you can manage to hunt down all those statistics, while never noticing anything at all about the pepper spraying incidents -- which have been all over the newspapers, TV and the internet, as well as being officially acknowledged and discussed by spokesmen for the police agencies involved.

    Tell me... who is 'offically' promulgating and enforcing that Occupy policy of not reporting rapes? Who are these officials, what authority do they have, and how are they enforcing their edicts? How can a movement you describe as a bunch of anarchists have official policies on anything?

    Your sweeping dismissal of thousands of young and old protesters as "a socialist/communist/anarchist movement that hates middle-class Americans almost as much it hates rich people..." is paranoid nonsense. As are your claims that the news media is somehow controlled by "socialists."

    You need to do a little studying up, son. Socialists and anarchists are about as far apart as you can get.... socialists want a hands-on government, and anarchists want none at all.

    And your claim that the Tea Party movement springs from the same roots as the Occupy movement, as a spontaneous reaction to unfair exploitation by the rich, is also completely off the mark. Go read up on how much money the Koch brothers spent underwriting the formation of the Tea Party movement, and add up the hours of promotion given it by Fox News.

    Reality check: the TP'ers are mostly clueless tools, being used to promote the interests of big corporations and the super-rich. Proof of that is right there in their name: "Taxed Enough Already." They're so clueless they don't even realize they're already paying lower federal taxes than they did under their idol, Ronald Reagan.
     
  8. CatBuilder

    CatBuilder Previous Member

    That, Michael, is what scares me most about this stuff. The possibility that we are on a very slippery slope to becoming a nation where it is OK to just go in and pepper spray people, maim people and possibly kill people without a court of law authorizing it.

    Combine that slippery slope with a deeply corrupted leadership and nuclear weapons and you have the possibility of some serious issues developing.


    BTW: Did any of you fascist police-state types recognize that this is just a bunch of college kids at a college campus? Did you know that they were not doing anything illegal or damaging anything? Did you know that they were perfectly within not only the law, but the rules of the school? That it's perfectly natural to actually sit down at a college in large groups (if any of you received any higher education, not sure)?
     
  9. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    Maybe reign in the inflammatory rhetoric cat.


    Is it within the rights of individuals to block police action?
    How about refusing to comply to a direct order to disperse?

    The police were authorized to by the campus administration to clear an unlawful assembly.
    The protestors had been specifically, repeatably asked to clear the encampment by the school administration.
    By refusing they forced the hand of administrators who had to rely on police force to try and effect school policy decisions.
    Given every opportunity to comply they finally crossed the line into breaking the law at the point of refusing to respond to police orders.

    I have a fine eye for abuse of others and I see none here.

    The existence of law is not the definition of a "Fascist Police State".
     
  10. Boston

    Boston Previous Member

    wouldn't want to disrupt a perfectly good argument but all that police violence only makes the movement stronger

    we may not actually be 99% of the voters but given the ultra polarized state of politics today we don't need to be.
     
  11. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    It is your fortune too that George Washington and his fighters for freedom and justice didn't care too much about british orders to comply and disperse.
    It is curious thing how even the most noble and strongest opinions and ideas can change with time.
     
  12. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    The whole thing dissolves into the theater of the absurd.

    A bunch of college kids protesting against "Wall Street" which only exists so fund managers can invest their parents money and allow them to have enough cash to send these same kids off to university.

    This guy has a whole series of vids form the protest:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgGohVOOZrE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    The only part I find "chilling" is the last part of vid one where the crowd is closing down on the small police force. (from~ 4:30 on)

    These kids are play acting with the fervor which only lives in the ignorance of youth.
     
  13. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    Oh yes- freedom from oppression.
    The nobility of LE RESISTANCE

    Please
     
  14. daiquiri
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    daiquiri Engineering and Design

    Exactly. Hard to understand when personal comfort and convenience reign, I know.
     

  15. bntii
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    bntii Senior Member

    I worked for years to put myself through university.
    I have worked for years to start a business and work every day to improve my life and the lives of those who surround me.

    I don't have any "comfort"
    Just work
     
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