Long term survival boat ideas

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by mmutch, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. champ0815
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    champ0815 Senior Member

    Ok, leaving sailing performance aside, you my have found with this ship a survival solution for your needs, skills and ambition. You decided for the option: A tank is the perfect solution for traffic problems
    But as I stated before: There's always someone with a bigger hammer - in case of humans, this person is especially attracted to compare his with an other big one (which calls for trouble), in case of nature - well, this player is known to have a hammer suitable for every human device... .
    As evolutions shows, you can survive by pure strength (as a monohull) or by intelligence (the smarter concept, as a multihull) - dinosaurs were very successful in their time but somehow a then completely insignificant kind of animals with warm blood and fur survived until now and conquered all the vacant living spaces formerly dominated by them.
     
  2. oldsailor7
    Joined: May 2008
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    oldsailor7 Senior Member

    I am very sad to see this bickering about Mono vs Multi.
    All sailboats are wonderful.
    I have sailed since 1958 on both monos and multis and love them all.
    As a retired aeronautical engineer I am more biased toward Multis though as they have more in common with aircraft.
    As Clyde Cessner famously said. "Simplicate and add less weight".
    It pains me to see these big racing mono's with seven tons of lead and a diesel engine running all the time while sailing, to power the hydraulic system which moves the heavy canting keel. It negates the very clean simplicity of sail alone.
    It is wise to remember that the fastest circumnavigation of the world EVER is held by a pure sailboat. Around the world at an average speed of 29.6 kts.
    How environmentally great is that. :D
     
  3. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    I don't have any problem at all with multihulls.

    The problem I generally have is with people who make claims that simply are wrong.

    Claiming that a diesel-powered multihull was a prime choice for a survival vessel is the claim I had the problem with. When I was younger I spent quite a lot of time working from a big aluminium powered catamaran so I do have personal experience - including helping service the engines crammed into small spaces.

    Then claiming that multihulls can get into thinner water was another claim that's pretty dubious.

    OTOH nobody seems to be disputing that monohulls have vastly more ability to carry cargo than a multihull. I consider this important.

    Fibreglass, f/g ply epoxy, steel & ally are all essentially products of a 20C or later technology base. Timber boats like BERTIE aren't.

    So as usual the question comes back to what one is trying to survive. If it's something fairly short in location & duration, and you can outrun it then a multihull is likely a better choice. Otherwise, no.

    PDW
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    I too dont have a problem with multi hulls --I have not said I did. I have one!!

    It Wharrams that dont fit with me,
     
  5. rwatson
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    If you don't like being called ignorant - then dont make claims like this.



    Wharram cats have made over 500 crossings of the Atalantic and Pacific in the last 60 years, without a single capsize or sinking due to wind and wave action.




    " multi hull strapped together with twine"

    Utter rubbish

    if lashings are used ( and they are optional on the larger boats) then they are high strength, high quality Spectra or similar, the same used by multiple much bigger boats for rigging.


    Performance ?

    "Cookie is a Wharram Tiki 21 design and is the smallest catamaran and multihull to circumnavigate the world at just 21ft in length .... came second in the Jester Challenge, single handed transatlantic"

    http://www.roryandcookie.com


    For their designed function ( low price, minimalist, low tech, highly seaworthy ) they are very successful.
     
  6. rapscallion
    Joined: Oct 2006
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    rapscallion Senior Member

    I love the "cooking fat" story. Taking second in the Jester Challenge using a boat built on a 5K budget is outstanding. Even the Jester challenge is attracting rather expensive boats. I did see a Figaro signed up to race, although I'm not sure if one has actually raced yet.

    I'm not sure If I would like sailing a Wharram - I have never sailed one - but I admire the idea of them. They are very seaworthy boats, when built correctly. I have turned into a speed junky since selling my monohull and buying a multi, and in a survival situation I would want to travel light and travel fast. I would most likely stick close to the coasts in order to scavenge, and a boat that could be beached in my opinion would be an advantage. Because the wharrams are low tech they should be much easier to maintain. And as someone already mentioned they are very seaworthy in terms of capsize risk.

    i too would go for simple.. and as small as i could get away with... the bigger the boat, the harder it is to handle in anger... I had to climb the mast on my laser 28 in 35+ knots of wind and 9+ foot waves during a 180 mile solo race... that wasn't easy... Just hoisting the main on an open 60 requires over 3,500 revolutions on a winch requiring 80 foot/lbs of torque. There are a lot of advantages to a smaller - low tech design that might not be obvious initially.
     
  7. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    There is a lot of good things to be said about small, manageable boats.

    The shoreline scavenging, fast moving low maintenance machine could work in many scenarios.
     
  8. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member


    So as a coconut or a tin can.

    More test of man than boat.
     
  9. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    How about "yes, that was silly of me to rubbish a very competent, proven boat design that obviously works safely" ?

    No, I know ... I'll make some fatuous remarks about debris, of which a small percentage survives and would never support human life ..... yeah, that sounds a lot smarter !!
     
  10. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Very very very few places in the world were you can safely put any boat bigger than a hobie cat on the beach.

    Its foolhardy to make this a design feature .

    Huge water tanks, huge storage is the way to go if you expect to be self sufficient for any lenght of time.
     
  11. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Nope, not a fact. Many boats ( multihulls and monos) up to 30 feet can be safely beached and even winched up or down from the highwater mark.

    If you guys are short on beaches, there are about 400 kilometres of them in Tasmania, many pristine, beaches down here in Australia. "11,011 significant beaches to be exact. "
    http://www.virtualoceania.net/australia/photos/coast/

    The best way to get freshwater is simply to sail up anyone of a 26 navigable rivers in Tasmania, and a lot more on the mainland.

    Europe may have a lot of access problems, but its not the whole world by any means.

    Checkout the "Best beach in the world"

    http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/Attraction_Review-g255096-d522986-Reviews-Bay_of_Fires-Tasmania.html
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Ok...whatever you say. I have a hard time finding beaches with no tide and no weather to beach my RIB. Perhaps its just my bad luck.


    Id say very few beachable areas.

    . And since every guy with a multi would be zeroing on these few places to " occupy the beach" you would be facing a survival situation surrounded by hordes of unshaven Wharram travelers and their zombie relatives.

    Is that Bongos I heard beating in the distance ?

    Shiver me timbers...say it aint so
     
  13. rwatson
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    rwatson Senior Member

    Thats the spirit. :p

    " tide and no weather to beach my RIB"
    Ah, rubber ! You need a solid aluminium hull.

    " hordes of unshaven Wharram travelers "
    Who is to say what the 'post apocalyptic' scenario will be like, but for survivors of an economic meltdown, maybe it would be a viable situation for some people. They would probably have a party !

    Already, we have a few of homeless people camping in tents around the national parks and small towns. The relatively mild climate enables them to stretch their dole money out a lot more.
     

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  14. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    When the going get tough, Ill get going on a Tramp Steamer.

    Earn my keep as a sailor of fortune, part time pirate.

    http://[​IMG]
     

  15. champ0815
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    champ0815 Senior Member

    Survival will always be the test of man - a boat itself has no interest in surviving... .
    Maybe the vessel with the best chance of survival is a plastic bottle - just inspect the shore lines all around the world. If it's rocky, if it's sandy, they are just floating undamaged. Not sure, if up-scaling and the addition of a propulsion and steering facility is possible without loss of this remarkable feature.
    There were reports of ocean crossing in boats up to 10 feet - small monos, completely sealable from wave and weather. This coffin style wouldn't suit me, but obviously it can be done.
    As for propulsion, even without apocalyptic scenarios there is no future for fossile fueled transport. At sea, we have the advantage of a statistically constant breeze to power the boat, so it is nonsense to make oneself dependent on other fuels to keep moving.
     
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