Long term survival boat ideas

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by mmutch, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. Yobarnacle
    Joined: Nov 2011
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    Location: Mexico, Florida

    Yobarnacle Senior Member holding true course

    Load carrying displacement cat.

    I'm putting a pair of Albin 25s together as a motorsailing catamaran.
    Each hull 8.5 feet beam and is trailerable by itself.
    Performance?
    60mph behind my truck on the highway. :)
    Don't yet know what she'll do on the water.
    Space and loadout? Twice that of a single Albin 25.

    Maintenance?
    Normal for a FRP boat. But, these hulls are thick glass, 40 years old, and no blisters.
    Built right in those early days. :)
     
  2. rwatson
    Joined: Aug 2007
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    Location: Tasmania,Australia

    rwatson Senior Member

    The survival evidence is a good indicator.

    There are no Polynesian settlements in cold climates (so much for a better way of traveling) , and nothing larger than a few large pigs, coconuts and the crew was ever carried between islands. Likewise, the populated islands are all geographically close, whereas many uninhabited islands are a long way from populated areas.




    Now, lets compare that to the location and size of say, just the British and French colonization locations. Heck, Sydney would have starved to death in the early years except for provisions from overseas. True, the size of the boats is a big factor, but as the previous article stated, the size of multi-hulls is severely limited when using woven fastenings.

    If you wanted to be as independent as possible, in a survival scenario, multi-hulls are not the optimum solution.



    Oh - PS, on the subject of speed. In optimum conditions, the average Wharram 42ft cat

    "As for speed: depending on the wind direction and strength 4-7.5 kts. At 8 Kts I think seriosly about putting in a reef. I am not sure If I am being conservative as I have only had my 42 for a few months. It is so much faster on all points of sail than my old steel mono that I do not want for much more.

    sorry - forgot this line in the paste
    JWD in the design book states top speeds of around 18 knots! But recommends cruising speeds of 9 to 12 knots as being more comfortable! Load is listed as 2.5 to 3 tons.
    "


    http://www.wharram.eu/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1094875050

    His old steel boat might have only averaged 3-4 knots, That's not very fast- I can do better than that in a FG monohull, say around 10 knots., but it would repel pirates AK7 bullets a lot better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2013
  3. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Yah...Ive never understood the Multi hull fetish. Twice as many things to go wrong and no load carrying ability.

    Recently one of those Wharram Cat guys took shelter on the public port authority transit berth. Australian flag, jerry jugs all over the deck, rust bleeds and seagull poop everywhere, its crew looked shell shocked and had obviously run out of razor blades weeks prior. .

    Not a very civil way to survive.
     
  4. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member

    For those who like facts. A wharram is a home made ply wood multi hull strapped together with twine and has little personal hygene facilities unless built in by the builder but on a dollar a day seldom does.

    It for the cheap no money people who want to sail the seas and end up being saved by others risking thier lives.

    Its a pile of crap defended by those who do not have the money for a proper boat and therefore consequently should be stopped from doing so.

    There are certain vehicles that would not be allowed on the road, we all agree on what those are but for the poor intelligence of some boat admirers they don't see this danger of a tied together plywood multi hull at sea.

    Its nothing more that a childs raft.

    Sorry for the long post but I felt it was time to make a point.
     
  5. Frosty

    Frosty Previous Member


    Would it not be that calling some one ignorant on the internet that does not know him or his name or where he lives shows a very high level of ignorance in itself to make such a claim.

    However im pleased you enjoy my posts and have little giggle to yourself.
     
  6. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    And most of the load carried by monohulls is ballast resulting in a unenviable lead fueled downwards vertical acceleration when things go wrong. Tis better to float on top of the water than lie under it....For a mono I'd think about a sharpie or shallow V bottom. More load carrying, less ballast so easier to add flotation. Still capsizable but with shallow draft advantages and a long commercial sail history with plenty of room. And really the unenlightened should feel more at home on a garbage scow, being unable to count beyond 1 hull and all that. ;)
     
  7. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    With a long term survival boat ....Tis' better to STUB your toe with a block of lead, than with a Multis egg shell hull..

    Tis' educational to watch multis drift off anchor and beach.

    Locally , the anchorage south of the harbour is well protected from waves and swell, but its windswept. Boats are always dragging anchor and blowing ashore. At least a dozen per year.

    The monos drift until their keels touch bottom, then heel over a bit and look sad. A powerful launch shows up in the morning and drags them off . Its embarrassed owner pays a hefty tow bill.

    the Multis drift off anchor then get blow right onto the beach . The slight 500mm surge pushes their running gear thru the bottom , floods the boat, then the rocky shoreline chews their bottoms off. A crane comes in the morning and hauls the mess off to the landfill . That baby didnt survive long...............its embarrassed owner now needs a new survival craft. Tis' a bummer
     
  8. champ0815
    Joined: Apr 2008
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    champ0815 Senior Member

    It is also educational to mark on a map of the coast line all sheltered areas:
    a) with depth larger than 2 meter - this is the area a lead transporter can set his solid foot in.
    b) with depth smaller than 2 meter - where happily live the egg shells.
    On most coast lines b) places are more common. In addition with the a) places, the chances for a multi to find a save anchorage or, something totally unheard of, BEACHING are a lot bigger.
    Drifting anchor is a fault in seamanship and can be fatal for every vessel - the egg shell of a multi is of the same thickness as the shell of the mono above the keel area. What if your valued mono stubs not his toe but his butt? Simple physics - power equals mass times acceleration. Which shell cracks first, the one with the light load behind it or the heavy?
     
  9. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    Ok...whatever Ya say !!!
     
  10. troy2000
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    troy2000 Senior Member

    I think we know you fairly well, Frosty. We don't need to know your real name to read your incessant posts on subjects you obviously know little about... like the USA.;)
     
  11. champ0815
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    champ0815 Senior Member

    Well, if I'm wrong, please correct me!
    I'm here to learn... .
     
  12. michael pierzga
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    michael pierzga Senior Member

    As they say...no matter how you shake and dance , youre always gonna get a few drops in your pants.

    I sail for living...I drift anchor, I run aground !!

    I even run aground with rubber dingies , with seagulls standing on the mud bar. !!!!

    Anyboat who expects to go the distance , needs to be able to smash into things, suffer foolish moments and escape with only embarrassment.

    Perhaps a Multi survival craft could be battle hardened. I dont know much about multi defense strategies.

    I do know how to battle harden a monohull. So they will be my survival getaway rig.
     
  13. champ0815
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    champ0815 Senior Member

    Ok, thank you! That's a valid position.

    This strategy is mirrored in German car sales: Because life is so dangerous on the streets and the cars getting bigger and faster, car buyers absolutely need a car which in case of accident is able to survive best - the large SUV. It's some kind of arms race... .

    IMHO, no real solution to any problem:
    Somewhere sometimes, there will be some circumstance you can't provide for by "hardening". There you rely on skills and, as unsatisfying at it is, on luck to survive. The Titanic was the safest ship of that time... .
    One wrong decision can wreck any ship - and if it is the accidentally left open sea valve. In this case, your solid foot may accelerate the wreckage. At least a multi is usually still floating after catastrophe... .
    Just my opinion... .
     
  14. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    All very well & good except, my 12m steel monohull draws 1.2m of water, has a 40mm thick keel shoe and a 4mm thick hull plate. Sure, a multi can get into thinner water, but not a *lot* thinner.

    I've seen pictures of an aluminium version washed up and bounced along the rocks of a Nova Scotia 'beach' (MISTRESS QUICKLY if the pix are still on the net somewhere). The hull was dented in along the chine but not breached.

    Your lightweight boat is not going to survive a mistake like that, so it's not really a good survival vessel unless you never make a mistake..... OTOH I know I'm hopeless so I build a boat that can survive my lack of skill.

    PDW
     

  15. cavalier mk2
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    cavalier mk2 Senior Member

    The good thing about monos is we can harvest them for the lead so we have musket ammo. On many lee shores a keel boat will wipe out and roll in the breakers far from shore while a multi will make the beach.

    Maybe the monohulls should start their own thread? I'd go the sharpie route, something like a Reulle (sp?) Parker boat or a scow schooner along the Gulf Coast lines.

    If we did go back to the dark ages ballasted craft would have to be set up to carry rocks again as metal won't be available. A decent timber cat could be built lapstrake using lumber so there will still be multihulls around.
     
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