Long range project

Discussion in 'Projects & Proposals' started by Chris C, Dec 14, 2020.

  1. Chris C
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: Tulsa, Ok

    Chris C Junior Member

    This is my first time posting here and I am looking for some advice on a project I'm working on. I have been playing around with different hull shapes and am looking for some advice from those that aren’t stumbling in the dark like me.

    My plan is to build a long-range liveaboard to retire on. This is a long term project so I am not expecting to work miracles. I have been reading every book I can think of for guidance and have been basing much of my ideas off of the work of George Buehler, the Dashews, Tad Roberts, and Dave Gerr. My general requirements are moderate speed motor cruiser, long term live aboard, manageable with basic low maintenance systems, relatively low cost of ownership, rough sea survivability, relatively fuel-efficient and 4,000+ NM, and buildable without with limited fabrication (machining and welding are not a problem but pre curving plates is not viable). This leads me to believe a multichined aluminum monohull with a single-engine and fins for drying out is the best bet. I would be happy to purchase stock plans to meet my requirements, but of the designers that are still around that meet my intent they don't seem interested in attributing their designs to a "backyard build." So, in the spirit of the late George Buehler, I am considering an open-source project that is freely available.

    The design I have been playing around with is:
    LOD 78’
    LWL 75.5’
    Beam 18’
    BWL 15.5’
    Hull Draft 4’
    OA Draft 5’
    Disp 125,000 lbs
    PC .55
    Rudder Area 14 ft2
    Engine Cummins QSL9
    286HP @ 1800

    I’ve been taking advantage of the free trial on Orca3D and have attached everything I have come up with so far. Any guidance on what I can improve or if I am way off track would be appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: Midcoast Maine

    DCockey Senior Member

    Do you have a list of your requirements, needs, wants, desires, etc? This is sometimes refered to as a SOR or Statement Of Requirements though at initial design phases it does not need to be formal.

    How much experience do you have with boats?

    Are you contemplating building it yourself? How many years are you contemplating? How many hours a year for construction?

    Any current designs which come close to your requirements or which you are using as references?
     
  3. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
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    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Welcome to the Forum Chris.

    Your design looks very impressive - a strong influence from Steve Dashew's Wind Horse?

    Have you started on your General Arrangement drawings yet, and done some weight estimates?

    Where are you planning on building her?
     
  4. Chris C
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: Tulsa, Ok

    Chris C Junior Member

    David, My requirements are:
    -A retirement home for extended cruising for two with no additional crew with provisions for an additional couple with a couple of kids for short periods.
    -Ocean crossing capable of both arctic and tropical conditions with a cruising speed around 10 knots.
    -My experience consists mostly of sailing on day trips on lakes in boats up to 35'.
    -As this will be a boat to retire on I have a no later than the timeframe of 20 yrs(hopefully less) with a tentative budget of $500,000. Construction will be taking performed by myself on our land with final transport being over the road to a port. I have access to heavy equipment as needed for materials handling and skilled labor for any aspects of construction I am incapable of.
    -Due to no crew I am focussing on engine propulsion vs sail, with a single-engine with hydraulic/sail as alternate get home propulsion.
    -I am a fan of all the FPB models by the Dashews and like their arrangements with raised salon/pilothouse. Buehler's Ellemaid very closely meets many of my requirements, but since his passing is no longer an option. I enjoy woodworking and making furniture which will be reflected in the interior with light stained woodwork.
    -As far as systems priority will be placed on safety and survivability (AIS, radar, systems monitoring by NK instrumentation, manual hydraulic steering, VHF/SSB, etc). beyond that Id like a watermaker, washer dryer, deepfreeze, and fridge. Windlass will be hydraulic as well as bow thruster if it proves necessary.
    -Draft should be limited to 5 ft max for access to anchorages which will be anchoring to limit slip usage. Fuel efficiency will be the priority followed by rough weather ability followed by comfort.

    Baja, thanks for the encouragement. Yeah, the design is heavily influenced by Wind Horse. I have the arrangement largely planned out but nothing modeled as of yet. Bellow deck will be very similar to FPB 70. I've written up some spreadsheets for the scantlings requirements, based on The Elements of Boat Strength, by Dave Gerr and if I remember right the hull weight minus deck house was around 30,000 with fuel weight of 28,000(which can be offset with water ballast as fuel is consumed) and provisions for 8,000 in the fins if necessary. Based on these rough initial numbers I am guessing that I can keep COG within a few feet of the waterline. I live on a parcel of land down the road from the Port of Catoosa in Oklahoma which should do nicely for the build.
     
  5. TANSL
    Joined: Sep 2011
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Welcome to the forum.
    I think you did a wonderful job and I congratulate you on it. I see, however, something that should be analyzed (and if I'm wrong, I hope you can excuse me), such as the curve of the frame areas showing an irregularity in the bow area, or the hydrostatic values that apparently have not been calculated, or the maximum righting arm of 2.2 ft which appears to be rather small for a boat with 18 ft beam.
    Regarding the shapes, I think that one more chine on the side would be necessary. The limitation in the draft will probably cause an increase in the beam.
    You should buy plans from a designer with sufficient experience or be guided in your calculations, go hand in hand with him, by someone who knows the intricacies of naval architecture.
     
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  6. Mr Efficiency
    Joined: Oct 2010
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    That is a lot of boat to transport to a "port", I thought Oklahoma was a long way from such, I can see the bill being the GDP of a small country. But maybe I am wrong about your proximity to a launching spot.
     
  7. Chris C
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: Tulsa, Ok

    Chris C Junior Member

    Port of Catoosa is the farthest inland port of entry in the US. It also just happens to be down the road from me. I lucked out on my location.
     
  8. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    OK, so you can get out through the Mississippi, still, make sure there are no obstacles existing or planned, that could bar your way with an object that size.
     
  9. Chris C
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: Tulsa, Ok

    Chris C Junior Member

    Thanks, that's exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for. I have come up with multiple revisions, as you can tell by the version number, so it’s definitely not set in stone. I can definitely refine it more focusing on those areas. As far as the calculations you are absolutely right. I'm still trying to figure it all out. Is that something that is regularly done for hire or is there any experts here that can guide me through the process? If anyone is interested I can post the 3dm files if they want to play around with the design.

    Keep the critiques coming.
     
  10. Chris C
    Joined: Dec 2020
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    Location: Tulsa, Ok

    Chris C Junior Member

    Not a problem. The Mcclellan Kerr navigation system is dredged for barge rafts 9 ft draft, 250 ft wide, and 52 ft bridge clearance. Large amounts of cargo passes through here.
     
  11. DCockey
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    DCockey Senior Member

    Port of Catoosa is at the end of the 445 mile long McClellan–Kerr Arkansas River Navigation System which connects to the Mississippi River. Locks are 600 feet long, 110 feet wide with a controlling depth of 9 feet. So Chris C's proposed vessel can easily travel on it's own bottom from Tulsa, Oklahoma to the salt water of the Gulf of Mexico. Alternative routes would be to go north on the Mississippi, then to Chicago, through the Great Lakes and either accross the Erie Canal and down the Hudson River to New York Harbor, or through the Welland Canal and the St Lawrence Seaway to Montreal, Canada.
     
  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    @Chris C I have no objection to helping you, in fact, I would gladly do it, if the work is not too big.
    If you are not concerned about the intellectual property of your project and topics like that, it is best if you show your files in case someone wants to take a look at them in a constructive spirit.
    By the way, is it a sailing boat, a motorsailer or just a motor boat? (I don't know the designers, and their designs, that you mentioned in your previous post)
     
  13. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    My initial impression is your design looks more like a sailboat shape, your stability numbers would be far better with fuller ends, and she needs more flare and flam forward to keep drier. You don't gain much with that shape at modest speeds, in terms of drag.
     
  14. Mr Efficiency
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    Mr Efficiency Senior Member

    I can see the waterway, isn't a problem. I was thinking of the trip from the build point to the launch point.
     

  15. Ad Hoc
    Joined: Oct 2008
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Excellent. Nowt beats living and playing on a boat.

    But, you need to do some more research or seek professional advise first.
    For example, this hull form:

    upload_2020-12-15_10-16-39.png

    Is not suited for ocean going long haul crossings. ....given the length of roughly 23m, for ocean going monohull cruiser, requires safety in mind first before anything else is considered!
    Thus it requires more investigation to the routes and probable sea conditions and thus, the most preferred/suitable hull - hydrodynamic - before you begin the long journey you are about to embark on.

    As Mr.E notes, the hull is more a sailing type of hull form than a long range motor cruiser.
     
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