Long Narrow Planing Hulls

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Randerso, Sep 8, 2006.

  1. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    There have been a few notable exceptions to the short and fat epidemic that is predominant in todays motor boats.
    Tom Fexas's original Midnight Lace springs to mind.
    But they are certainly few and far between.
    Technology is as much to blame as gadget-greedy consumers. Engines have become more powerful, smaller and lighter. Composites have increased the strength of laminates at the same time as reducing their weight. Adhesives, electronics, etc, etc.
    Sadly, instead of making the most of the opportunity to improve efficiency, designers, builders and consumers have seen it as a way of allowing them to put more and more crap - er... convenience items - on board. There's no way a boat of 25 years ago could have managed to get on the plane with the volume and weight that todays floating condos' lug around.
    Maybe the massive increase in the cost of fuel will see a corresponding increase in more efficient cruisers. Sadly, there's been an even bigger increase in the wealth of the people who buy these boats, so I doubt that we'll all soon be scooting around in modern commuter boats...
     
  2. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    I agree; the reason for that fees scheme is before all the marina design criteria itself. And that's commanded by the market, so by short fat monohulls, which is what most people buy nowadays. So the real problem is the nowadays profile of the typical boatowner. There's a growing number of people having the money to buy a boat, but having very little idea (and probably even no interest at all) about seamanship, seaworthiness and the like. What many people want are floating condos to stay at marinas, doing ocasional nice weather, flat seas short sailings. And this is not to blame them. It's simply a matter of fact.

    About Dashew's unsailboat, I'm wondering if any of you know if those big windows are conceived to be capsize resistant. I have my doubts. They state nothing about this at their site. (Read: http://www.setsail.com/dashew/dashew215.html)

    For other slender designs, see also:
    http://www.stadtdesign.com/products/vds608_6531.htm
    http://www.loganboats.co.nz/
    http://65.39.129.167/POWER/Andreyale50.html
     
  3. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    I've always had my doubts about the whole cost of marina berth's being the cause of fat boats thing.
    I should preface this by saying that the cost of berthing in Australia is nothing like it is in Europe. I don't know about the States...
    But really, if you're going to spend a million bucks on a boat, are you really going to be that concerned if it costs you an extra 5 grand per year because you've bought one a bit longer?
    For those of us consigned to the 2nd hand market this may be more of an issue, but then 'we' aren't the one's the designers / builders are concerned about...
    As I said, I realise the cost of berthing in Europe can easily be as much as buying the boat itself, but is it that much more expensive to berth say a skinny 45 footer as opposed to a fat 40 footer?
     
  4. Crag Cay
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    Crag Cay Senior Member

  5. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    But really, if you're going to spend a million bucks on a boat, are you really going to be that concerned if it costs you an extra 5 grand per year because you've bought one a bit longer?

    Most of the fat condo boats are 30 to 45 ft long and far far from a million anything.

    In our neck of the woods, New England North East coast US, a slip for a 40 ft boat is $4500.US for the summer.

    And $30 to $40 for the haul and storage when the water gets solid.

    FAST FRED
     
  6. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Fred - sorry - I was talking AUD - out here, a 45 footer does cost a million bucks.
    But you reinforce my point. If it costs USD $4500 for a 40ft berth, what's it cost for a 50ft? 5K...? Is that extra $500 going to stop you buying the longer, but narrower boat? I don't think so.
    The reason people buy fat is because it gives greater interior space. It's more like their lounge room at home. The reason they buy short is because they can't afford to buy long!
     
  7. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

  8. Ike
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    Ike Senior Member

    I see a little of the old myth creeping in here that boatowners are all rich-fkrs. The truth is the average boatowner is a middle class blue collar type like you and me. The Coast Guard and the Natl Marine Manufacturers Assoc have done plenty of studies on this. So, the mid-class guy who sinks a lot of bucks into a boat and is paying a mortgage on it bigger than the one on his house, is right to be concerned about the 4500-5000 dollars he/she is going to have to come up with so they have someplace to put the boat, not to speak of maintenance, annual haul out and fuel costs.

    Which brings up another issue for the mini-condo boats. Trailerable boats. Trailerable boats have gotten bigger, and longer but not wider. They have to meet a max width for you and I to tow it on the highway without hiring an escort with a big sign and flashing lights. So to get more room in them they make them taller. Again, they look like a condo. And eventually they get too tall and begin having stability problems when up on a plane. And you need a big-*** truck with an 8.1L engine or big diesel to pull the floating condo.

    All of which makes me glad all I want is a little sailing dinghy

    "Old sailers never die they just get a little dinghy" Anonymous
     
  9. Willallison
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    Willallison Senior Member

    Peter - I'm not by any stretch suggesting that boat owners are ...er... wealthy. But I would venture to suggest that the vast majority of 40+ft new boat buyers could be classed at least as reasonably well off. And I would still suggest most of them don't choose their boats based on whether berthing will cost them $4500 instead of $5000 each year.

    On the trailerable front, I would have to agree. I owned a 27ft Searay Sundancer. It was very sensitive to transverse trim whilst on the plane - and it was low compared to some of the bizzare creations I see out on the water these days. It's amazing how little attention appears to be given to VCG location / stability
     
  10. fede
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    fede Senior Member

    The only thing people is looking for on a boat in my country is as many sleaping accomodations as possible,it seems that they need to tour the whole globe with their damn 7 mtrs long 4 mtrs wide bath thub,5 mtrs high.
    Result: we are starting to see boats that look like they are affected by a terrible and letal virus.
    Not to offend the designer...but this starts to look bizarre: www.cabinati.it/galleria3.shtml
    The boat is called 731 because it's 7 mtrs long and it has 3 beadrooms and 1 bathroom !!!
    And I keep drawing 15 mtrs long boats in wich is a problem to fit 2 beadrooms and 1 btrm...
    This is the reason why we see so many wide and high and ugly boats in europe...people wants to own floating houses.
     
  11. antonfourie
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    antonfourie Senior Member

    That is the most stupid ugly thing that I have ever seen, there should be a law against it and the designer should face a firing squad for such a disgrace
     
  12. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    "And I would still suggest most of them don't choose their boats based on whether berthing will cost them $4500 instead of $5000 each year."

    You are correct , most choose the boat on interior volume.

    When you figure the internal cubic ft of these condo boats 2 or 3 stories tall , the trade off is not 40 up to 45 ft ,,its more like 40 to 75 ft .

    40 X 15 =600 x 2stories = 1200 sq ft of floor space (max). 75 X 10 = 750 using same rough method.

    Hence the higher slip costs , look at Dashews boat , and a 35 ft condo blob , the condo blob has about the same volume!



    FAST FRED
     
  13. FAST FRED
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    FAST FRED Senior Member

    A while ago the AYRS had a very simple computer on line where one could enter the leginth , beam and weight and were given a drag number for a single "catamaran " style hull.

    Draft 1/2 beam some rocker , about what is seen on most cats.

    While weight caused some increase in drag , the beam rulled , and the L/B ratio was the most important factor.
    The computer was great for non techies , as it gave rapid answers to basic design questions. Anything dummy user friendly out there now?

    FAST FRED
     
  14. tom28571
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    tom28571 Senior Member

    I take it you don't like deep V, two story garveys. Don't worry, it won't be around very long because he can't see where he is going.
     

  15. moTthediesel
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    moTthediesel Junior Member

    Never having been to Italy, in my minds eye every other boat was a beautiful Riva, it's full length african mahogany hull gleaming in the mediterranean sun. The others would be small, double ended fishing launches, painted in brite colors. Ahhhh

    Then you had to show me this:

    The country who's designers have given us Ferrari GTO's and Olivetti typwriters and Ducati 916's has foisted THAT on the world?

    sad, sad :(
     
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