Lloyds or ABS standards

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by 8knots, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    8knots A little on the slow side

    A few dumB questions here so please bear with me.
    I need some help locating the proper rules that apply to small private Yachts. I need to get my act together and start learning the more in depth rules that apply to my trawler I'm working on.

    I dont think I really need to build her to those standards but if my family ever fell on hard times in the event of my death I would like them to be able to sell her if need be! I don't want it to be a expence to them... rather an asset.

    I fully intend to have a professional review my work before building her. But I would like her to be as close as possible.

    What am I lookig for when I search for the rules that apply to a 48' boat. Would I have to or my N/A submit plans to ABS for them to approve them as "designed to ABS standards"

    If somebody could point me in the right direction I would be very greatfull 8Knots
     
  2. Guest

    Guest Guest

    ABS

    ABS will probably not be interested in classing your boat, nor would you be interested in having them do so, once you got the price quote, assuming they would be willing to do it - they are not very interested in vessels under 24 meters any more.

    ABS no longer just reviews drawings.

    You could contact Lloyds for their yacht services, or DnV.

    However, the main place for craft that small is ISO, and their new rule . I don't know who actually does the review though.
     
  3. mmd
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    mmd Senior Member

    As Guest as said, you don't want to pay the price for Classification Society approval. I would reccommend that before you get too far into your restoration you should become familiar with the regulations pertinent to your boat, such as those laid down by USCG, IMO, and Det Norske Veritas (DNV). As you do your restoration, keep accurate records of what you are doing, listing scantlings, materials, and procedures - sort of a "daily diary" with plenty of photographs. When you are done, you can honestly say that the vessel "was restored to ABS/DNV/whatever standards". This will make the vessel more attractive on the resale market and with the photos as proof, will be even more so. A look at the American Boat & Yacht Society publications is a good thing to do, too.

    A note of warning, though: The answer to a simple question such as, "How thick should a hatch coaming be?" is not a mere matter of searching the classification society textbook index for "hatch coaming". Have patience - you will need it!
     
  4. TheFisher
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    TheFisher Junior Member

    Here are a couple of ABS specification documents for you 8Knots.
    Hope this helps a bit, one covers welding, the other, high speed naval craft.

    As you will see in the second doc ya need to do a bit of math to determine how thick something should be. A spreadsheet helps. :D
     

    Attached Files:

  5. TheFisher
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    TheFisher Junior Member

  6. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    8knots A little on the slow side

    Thanks Guest Im digging into those links now! Google is a wonderful tool.

    MMD At this point I am learning design. The boat I'm working on is posted in my gallery Called Dreadnought 48.
    I know I'm in for the red tape ride but I need to learn. I can see it now
    'Hatch coamings" Book7 article 702.xy9 page 77 paragraph 6 line 5 and on and on
    Thats OK I joke with my freinds "I'll be in a walker before she's done" I have the time and the inclanation to learn!
    Thanks for the tips
    8Knots
     
  7. 8knots
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    8knots A little on the slow side

    Thanks Fisher I was posting at the same time you did! I save d that link and will dig through it!
    Thanks Again 8Knots
     
  8. TheFisher
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    TheFisher Junior Member

    LOL, I had to do some editing :D
     
  9. Tad
    Joined: Mar 2002
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Will;

    This is a new construction, yes? What is the intended material? I have an idea you were thinking steel, but I'm not sure if I've got the right boat? If it's wood, ABS can't help you. Also the current ABS rules which the fisher has supplied, even the one for craft less than 60 meters, are not really applicable to small craft. ABS draws the line at 20 meters. So it's big ship stuff, interesting, and very useful when you get into the 150' motoryachts, but probably not worth the effort for a small boat.

    When dealing with these rules you will find that it is not that hatch coamings are at " Book7 article 702.xy9 page 77 paragraph 6 line 5 and on and on" rather that hatch coamings vertical height is dependent on 3 factors that are in other sections of the rule. Well, that's simple, oh but wait, those 3 factors are each dependent on 8 other factors, which are dependent on more factors, and on, and on, and on!!!! This is fun, and eats days like peanuts. So you end up buying the electronic version of the rule, where you plug in the boat and how you want to build it, and you are offered some scantlings that meet the rule. This saves many hours.

    Lloyd's SSC rules cover steel, aluminum, and composite construction of small craft for yacht service. Germanischer Lloyds covers cold-moulded construction of yachts and it's available on their site. DNV produces a lighter boat, similar to that designed to the latest ISO construction rule. Unfortunately the ISO rule, which would apply if you want to export the boat to Europe, is not publicly available and is expensive.


    All the best, Tad
     
  10. 8knots
    Joined: Feb 2002
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    8knots A little on the slow side

    OK I think I found them. Here is the link for the Lioyds rules
    http://www.lr.org/rules_and_standards/Rules_and_regulations/special_service_craft.htm

    Thanks to all who helped here. So I guess in a nutshell If I design and build to these standards then have a professional survey done she would be able to be sold. Aughhh the fun begins!;)
    8Knots

    Tad: Yes new construction In steel, alltho FRP appeals to me! If I had the capital I would try her on the market. But in reality the "trawler yacht" craze will be long gone before I know enough to get her built. Even tho she is little more than sketches now I think I'm on the right track to a good boat. I wish one of you rich N/A's with lots of time would take her under your wing and get her in the pages of PMM where she belongs! OK OK I'm a little biased ;)

    Thanks again to all!
     
  11. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    8knots - don't forget the classic mariner's definition of an elephant - a mouse built to Lloyd's rules. ;-)
    You WILL have a good solid boat.
    Steve
     
  12. 8knots
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    8knots A little on the slow side

    Thats OK by me so long as I don't paint her pink right;) I think black with a white super will do!
    8
     
  13. Tad
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    Tad Boat Designer

    Steve;

    Well, (IMO) "a good solid boat" would be the absolute minimum, no? In the words (or close to) of John Guzzwell, "at sea, the best is barely good enough".

    If you pursue it you will find that the current Lloyd's rules are very modern, the competition is fierce in that business. The old (1975?) rules were very arbitrary, but now you can vary the expected sea state, service, and speed. And so loads and requirements are quite variable.


    All the best, and best of the season to all.

    Tad
     

  14. SailDesign
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    SailDesign Old Phart! Stay upwind..

    Tad:
    "good, solid boat" is definitely a minimum for 8knots ;-)
    Lloyds' must have really done a number on their rules, I shall grab a copy of the new ones forthwith (or even fifthwith at this time of year)
    SAteve
     
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