Liza Jane, steel 20' sailboat

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Laurentiu, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Definitely bigger. Almost 50% bigger. And probably at least 33% deeper.

    But it would certainly perform better upwind and has a more liveable interior. But it's a bigger boat.

    It needs a deep water slip and or mooring and needs a sophisticated cradle for dry storage.

    The LISSA JANE design needs a more modest cradle for dry storage and can ground out during a falling tide with just two props to keep her from falling over.
     
  2. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Hi Laurentiu,

    If want to build a small cruising cabin sailboat out of steel, Wild Duck also may be of interest for you.

    Her cabin sides flush to the hull gives more interior space and provides extra buoyancy where it counts to resist to roll further in a knock down and to recover from there.

    The longer keel (vs. Liza Jane's skeg), with only 1" (2.54 cm) extra draft, looks to me to give her more leeway resistance, ie. better directional stability. The price for this is she doesn't stand vertical on her own bottom and need legs for comfort of the crew when the tide runs out. But on her side without legs I think buoyancy will take over and lift her before she gets water in the cockpit, maybe some waves will get in though, so keep everything that opens watertight dogged in this situation. BTW, Liza Jane needs a little support too to stand upright on her own bottom at low tide.

    Wild Duck plans are for plywood (LOA 19' (5.79 m)) but some were built of steel, especially in the Netherlands several decades ago.

    The steel ones were built a bit longer (LOA 6.3 m (20.67')), I think this is to create the extra buoyancy and displacement she needs to compensate for the extra weight of the heavier building material. Beam and draft is the same as for plywood I think, but I'm not sure about this.

    Designer: Alan H. Buchanan
    http://www.eventides.org.uk/designers.htm

    Wild Duck specs:
    http://www.eventides.org.uk/specs.htm

    For steel versions of Wild Duck see: ‘‘Beautje’’ and ‘‘Grauwe Razer’’ and ‘‘WD40’’ on this page (scroll down):
    http://www.eventides.org.uk/wildpic.htm

    ‘‘ CD containing all the plan sheets of this design saved as 'Pdf' files. Available 'At Cost' to registered members for £5.00 in the UK or £6.50 overseas. Contact us for details of how to get them. ’’
    http://www.eventides.org.uk/wildduck.htm
    ( to see this page I have to block the Java content from running )

    Click pics and the drawing on the linked pages for enlargement.

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    This build of Wynand N might be of interest for you to follow:

    - Preface: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/all-things-boats-and-boating/never-say-never-50182.html

    - Start: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/metal-boat-building/my-last-build-26ft-traditional-50310.html

    - Continuation: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/metal-boat-building/25-6ft-gaff-cruiser-under-way-50748.html

    - See also his website: http://5psi.net/

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    Good luck !

    P.S.

    For some info about the small plasma cutter used for the above linked build see post #3 here:
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2014
  3. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    From the ‘‘Grauwe Razer’’ part of above link:
    Maybe the people who run the Eventides website have those altered Wild Duck plans for steel build available, or have a contact adres where to get them . . ? ?
     
  4. Tanton
    Joined: Nov 2003
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    Location: Newport RI

    Tanton Senior Member

    steel

    rwatson.
    Right presume.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    A bit cumbersome, but for situations like this (on a Windows computer) press the buttons ‘‘Ctrl’’ and ‘‘f ’’ simultaneously and fill in the Design No. ‘‘995’’ for a page search, and you'll find:
    Take note that on that website the red V in front of the Design No. is a (hidden?) link as it is in the above quote.
     
  6. Angélique
    Joined: Feb 2009
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    Location: Belgium ⇄ The Netherlands

    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    Just saw ‘‘Die Struise’’ on the linked page is also built of steel, she's a stretched version, about 25' long.

    P.S.

    A closer look plus further reading learnt that ‘‘WD40’’ and ‘‘Die Struise’’ are different names for the same boat.
     
  7. Laurentiu
    Joined: Jul 2014
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    Location: România

    Laurentiu Junior Member

    In my country the boats up to 23 feeth [7m] don't needs inregistration. I want remain in that limit. Thanks for informations. I like Liza Jane [the boat], but everyelse boat in steel up to 7m is good to now and study
     
  8. frank smith
    Joined: Oct 2009
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    Location: usa

    frank smith Senior Member

    There is a good amount of info on Liza Jane in John Atkins "Practical Small Boat Designs"
    It can be bought on amazon.
     
  9. Conte
    Joined: Jul 2018
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    Location: italia

    Conte New Member

    Hi, my name is Giampietro Gaio, I live in Italy and have a passion for building boats. In 2000 I bought a construction plan from the Phil Bolger studio to build a steel boat; Liza Jane,
    that I have almost completed and would like to launch next year. I read your article about it,dated Jul 2014, I don't know you personally but I trust I can have some aswers to some doubts I have.
    The first is do you have a drawing of the description you mention the article about the modification in the keel?
    The second is do you think it would work to put part of the ballast as from plan, inside the skeg?
    I'm confident you can help me,
    My best regards,

    Giampietro Gaio
     
  10. sharpii2
    Joined: May 2004
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    Location: Michigan, USA

    sharpii2 Senior Member

    art of
    Hi Conte:
    Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I have read this entire thread to remind myself of the issues discussed. My recommendation is to build the boat as it is designed. Do not put ballast anywhere except were the design drawings tell you to. If you put ballast in the skeg/keel you run the very real risk of making the boat stern heavy. This means it will be likely to drag its transom. Dragging the transom can cause three problems:
    1.) The freeboard of the stern will be lower. This can make the boat easier to swamp from waves coming from astern,
    2.) the drag of the immersed transom will certainly slow the boat down, and
    3.) the drag of the immersed transom will cause the boat to turn down wind. This will create a lee helm which could make the boat dangerous to handle in strong wind conditions.

    In an earlier post, I said that the boat may develop a lee helm once it heels more than a few dgrees, as is, as the deep "V" forefoot will become a less and less effective part of the boat's lateral area. I even suggested welding a steel plate cut water on to the bow. Now I suggest lowering the jib first when the wind starts heeling the boat too much. This will accomplish two necessary goals:
    1.) It will reduce the Sail Area, without you having to reef, and
    2.) it will move the Center of Area of the sail plan aft, which should give the boat a tendency to point more upwind. Hopefully, this tendency to point upwind will counteract The tendency to turn down wind due to less effective forefoot.
     

  11. Joksimovic Dragan
    Joined: Mar 2019
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    Location: Europe, Serbia, Belgrade

    Joksimovic Dragan New Member

    I've bought plans, and need help in devising plates for bottom, side and transom panels.
     
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