Little Wing 15 / Warren Light /Anybody sailed this boat?

That is really neat. While I drew (on a napkin) my canoe for low aspect foils I haven't built them as I found it very practical to sail without the training wheels. The traditional approach works well in a seaway and while quick responses are needed you are prepared to make them. Doesn't the angle add a lot of drag?
In our cold waters recovering from a capsize is essential, the Little Wing would need some thought, though unlikely to tip in normal use. I'm wondering if the kfoil setup would act as a built in paddle float. The attachment design could work for a lot of different things while experimenting, amas, a pair of foils, aka for ama etc....

 

Mark Balogh built this boat, Shark Bait, back in 2007. Here you can see his interpretation of the concept of a bruce foil with an ama about which I wrote earlier. I think that Mark was onto something with this design process.

Unfortunately, the boat suffered some aka damage (can see it in one of the photos) while the boat was being transported to the ocean and it did not go sailing that day.

The boat I have in mind for this sort of melange of sailing ideas is my A64 design. http://www.lunadadesign.com/a64-tacking-outrigger.html

It is a simple to build and own, very light, stitch and glue built boat in marine plywood that is designed to be a nice, quick sailing machine while still retaining the paddling character of the trad single outrigger canoe. With a boat like this you get to sail, or paddle. You can take it out beyond the surf and explore coastlines, or go easily into shallow waters where it is advantageous to paddle. The boat stays assembled on the trailer and all you have to do is fold open the safety ama side of the boat and install the self-supporting rigs to make it ready to sail. In addition to the added foil, the ama can be further ballasted with water from an on board hand pump should the conditions warrant such an arrangement.

 

The limitations of sailing kayaks are familiar! Strictly for protected waters, including the neat rig in post #1.

Manfred: my kayak sailing rig was not a K-wing, it was home-made. It no longer exists, having lost an argument with a garage fire 3 years ago, but I have one solitary pic of it actually in the water, unfortunately on a still day. It shows the very first model; there were several improvements later including a larger sail.

I did take it out once in a breeze on Kempenfelt Bay (Lake Simcoe) which is known for its choppy conditions. I was looking up at the wave peaks but once I relaxed it behaved quite well. The foil did not rock the boat; a float might have been uncomfortable in those conditions. Unfortunately the strap attaching it to the hull loosened under the racking it was getting so I hauled it in; the Bruce foil was still functioning well even though it was a foot lower in the water than it started - it was mere luck that I noticed its imminent demise! That was a long, hard pull home against an offshore wind.

My rig was prototypical - let’s say crude - but it let me explore the concept. The K-wing is far more developed, but does not have a lifting sail like my rig. The foil is similar in size and shape to mine. Contrary to a statement on the site describing the K-wing, the foil’s righting moment did not require forward speed, it cancelled heeling moment almost instantly in a gust, moving or not. With a more efficient foil than my square piece of plywood with rounded edges, there might be a dependency on forward motion, but I doubt it. However the design principles highlighted in blue are spot-on.

A nice feature of my design was, the foil and sail could be erected in 30 seconds and packed way in about the same time. I designed it that way because my local pond is infested with low bridges.

Performance? With only 15 sq ft of sail on a run or reach in a breeze it would raise a bow wave of white water that soaked my arms halfway to my shoulders and made an impressive lot of noise. Speed in a fat beginner’s 10 ft kayak is never going to impress, but it was way faster than anyone ever paddled that little boat. Occasionally I made headway into the wind, but the upwind speed made good was between pathetic and zero. Too much leeway and not enough sail area compared to the windage of the skipper!

 

Bruce Foil

Hi Terry, your sail and foil arrangement looks absolutly great. It is one of the very rare pics from people who have been experimenting with such a foil. Most people only talk about foils(like me, who has a foil in the basement but did not dare to test it with one of his boats).

It is interesting for me to read, that you tested a square peace of ply and it worked. In his book "Design for fast Sailing" Edmond Bruce describes the flat plate as a good method to test the system. Buoyant and perfectly shaped foils seem to have difficulties with fuss.

During one of our trips to France 1980 on the Ile D´Oleron at Bateaux Oquetaux (they have built trimarans und catamarans) I saw a big pile of bouyant foils sorted out as rubbish. After extensive tests they found out that they didn`t work sufficient.

At an English Kayaker Forum I diskussed with a guy who had a K-Wing and sailed with it on a kayak und a canoe. He told me that this rig worked fine but was prone to breakage. http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?4796-Sail-for-sea-kayak Please scroll down.

I tried to get more information about the Atlantic crossing of the canoe with the C-wing and wrote to Chris Hare Marine in England with 30 British Pounds added but never heard anything about it. The only news I was able find out was the fact that the American Kayaker Magazin made a test of the K-wing years ago. But they did not answer my E-Mail.

So I am happy that you have some real experience with Bruce foils on a kayak and that you have sent a foto. Thanks a lot.

 

Manfred: Glad you enjoyed the pic.

I must admit that I have never read Bruce's work. I thought out the idea of the foil one idle day, scribbled some sketches and went out into the garage to build it. Frankly, it was a surprise that it worked so well. It seemed an obvious idea so I was surprised when I asked into patenting it and heard about Bruce’s patent years before.

I was thinking of revisiting the concept with a higher aspect foil with a proper hydrodynamic profile on a longer, telescopic outrigger, but I had reservations about the curved surface being as efficient for resisting leeway at low speeds: sounds like you have heard similar reports.

One version I planned to try had 2 foils with flat-bottomed profiles, as a compromise between a flat board and a symmetrical hydrofoil. I have a 3/4 finished rig but it is much bulkier than my earlier effort. It was part of some tests I wanted to do on “front wheel steering” and sailing directly into the wind, but arthritis is making it difficult for me to get into a kayak at present so I set it aside.

Thanks for the interesting link; I joined the SOTP forum! A poster there noted difficulties storing the K-wing on board; I mounted my foil on a parallelogram outrigger that could be folded against the hull; the foil tucked nicely under the flared stem. I have an idea for a compound hinge to raise the board onto the foredeck - has durability challenges.

My sails were 12-15 sq ft and collapsed instantly like an umbrella when the boom mount slid up the mast and the booms folded down; I wrapped it around the mast which was then folded forward over the foredeck, after which the outrigger could be pivoted in. Took 30-45 seconds tops; sounds like my design did better than the K-wing in that department! There’s not much cockpit-accessible storage space on a kayak.

One of the biggest problems I had was how to attach the thing to any kayak without drilling holes. Leeway was the worst aspect of its performance: the Bruce foil is known for that, and the flat board doesn’t help. The paddler sitting upright in the cockpit creates a lot of windage so a much bigger sail is needed for upwind work, I would guess around 25 sq ft as a minimum; small by canoe standards, but it is surprisingly difficult to make a sail even that big that can be easily handled in a kayak and quickly lowered and folded up. One way to do it might be to use a waterproof material, and have an emergency release to drop it into the water.

 

And I would suggest something different. I've had my kayak sailing rigs as far offshore as 25 miles and they behaved with the same predictable mannerisms as when sailing in the harbor.

This may be hard to deduce empirically, unless one tests a fixtured ama in the same conditions for comparison.

Cancelled, or dampened? How much body English was required to assist that dampening process to avoid a capsize in a gust when the sail was not trimmed properly to turn it into drive? At a no speed forward condition, the Bruce foil can only act as a minimal flopper-stopper, but it will not hold the boat steady there without some speed to create a lift function. Visualize the blade of a paddle as it is placed in the low, or high, brace position. The blade will not resist capsize for an infinite period of time and it will have to be retracted and reset to further energize the brace, or worked in lazy figure eights to maintain the brace without lifting the blade. Neither of these things are available to the installed Bruce foil.

This is the root of my comment some posts back in which it was noted that a boat in a swell bottom has little to no drive, save for some residual left-over from the trip down the backside of the leaving wave. When the on-coming wave starts to roll past and heel the boat on its face, the entire setup is vulnerable to capsize until the rig acquires more wind to create drive. Hence the need for a nicely designed ama to resist this heel-to-capsize function. Even a minimal ama is a whole lot better than none.

I refer you to the Triak web page, once again, for this kind of reference in a designed and realized boat.

After much testing, I'm of the opinion that a 36 sq. ft. sail is the absolute minimum to be able to achieve upwind sailing equal to, or better than, getting out the paddle and simply chugging. With properly sized amas, this sail size can be flown well into stronger winds, retaining the ability to sail upwind. My standard rig is 56 sq. ft. for good all-around sailing with a degree of performance, especially in lighter air. I have sailed offshore with as much as 90 sq. ft. and felt safe and controllable.

If you want it to be able to handle real sailing loads that are generated by a much larger sail, then hardware fixturing becomes a necessity. PE boats have marginal capacity for through hole fixturing as the loads tend to make the round into ovals over time unless really well thought-out backing plates are utilized. Hard shell boats are no problem, at all, but should still have backing plates.

25 sq. ft. is small by any standards, save for a heavy blow when reefed, or for strictly downwind sailing. As for a larger sail that can be easily dropped... have you seen the flip-up rig on the Triak? http://www.triaksports.com/ They can be raised and dropped quite quickly and I can't see any way to do it faster (other than a full jettison) than that sort of mechanism.

This would serve as a dandy brake. When you use standard, coated Dacron sailcloth, the waterproof issues are pretty much met. What kind of sailcloth material are you using that is not waterproof?

 

For easy righting without amas I recommend side buoyancy chambers under the side decks that run the length of a canoe plus flotation in the ends. With the traditional high bows of a canoe the boat wants to be right side up and the side flotation will let most of the water out when held on its side before you climb back in. A canoe has more beam than a kayak so reentry might be easier. I use mine for a dive platform it works so well.
Have you built the a-64 Chris or is it a speculative design? I remember the Wharrams had luff turbulence with lug sails on their faster designs and wonder what you may have encountered.
For experimenting with sail size and rigs duct tape and poly tarp are the way to go, you can even color match these days.

 

I agree about the solo hulled canoe sailing issues you mention, Cav.

Somewhere on the Web, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHGSqWpGh0Q&feature=related) (this one is better: http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=105646826122418#!/video/video.php?v=105646826122418 ) there's a great video clip showing a Japanese guy doing a reentry with his sailing canoe. He has firm foam, full length sponsons just inside the boat, running the full height of the canoe sides and shaped around the thwarts. They allow him to simply pull down and vault/roll into the hull in one motion and he gets hardly any water in the boat. The guy then resets trim and sails away with a big ol' grin on his face.

The A64 is a star-crossed boat at this point. There have been three serious prospect builders, two even sent deposits for plans... and then they backed out of the project when I sent the plans off to them. I gave them their money back and told them to keep the plans for goodwill.

I have found that you have to sort of continuously promote the design to keep it in the minds of possible builders. It's tough to do that on the Internet without looking like a complete shill and unless it is a new design for which I'm seeking input, I'm kinda reticent to make up threads just to pimp a particular boat. An Ad purchase is probably the best way, if you can target the correct audience.

So, no, it has not been built yet, but I'd love to see someone buy some plywood and get cooking on one. I'd even be willing to give away the plan set to see that happen.

The sailplan on the A64 is highly variable. I drew it up with a balanced lug yawl rig, mostly because I had not done too many trad rigs on my boats and wanted to show that a trad rig is just fine on a multihull with modern hull forms. Sometimes folks get locked into slots where certain boats have to have certain types of sail rigs.

The tip about polytarp is solid. So is building yuor own sails from Tyvek off of a scrap pile at a construction site. Over the years, I have done about twenty five Tyvek sails for different prototypes and they work decently enough to test balance issues, handling, etc. without dropping a dime on fresh stuff from a loft. It's fun to do, as well.

 

No dampening effect, it is a true cancellation of moments; see sketch (sail is shown edge-on).

None possible, none needed (see above) - tight cockpit!

The effect was independent of speed on my rig. It came close to flipping twice; the first time happened when I put up the sail before extending the foil, the second time when I retracted the foil before lowering the sail. After 2 near-flips I added a kind of interlock so I had to do things the right way round.

... that sounds about right.

The Triak is a nice rig and obviously sails well. The stability of a trimaran setup allows more sail and activity than is possible in an unstabilized kayak. I had the advantage that the entire rig tucked under one arm on the way to the water; to compete with the Triak there would have to be some kind of triathlon with a long portage to the water On my local pond I must drop the mast completely to pass under low bridges - less than 4 ft..

... it was one of my first boating experiments and I was using nylon furniture fabric; the wrong stuff for a whole bunch of reasons. These days I would use tarp for a proto.

 

kayak +foils?

This guy seems to have an idea worth experimenting with-a bit more in line with what I was thinking: http://kayakmaran.pbworks.com/w/page/270064/FrontPage

 

Nice that he's actually working out some of his issues by building something to put on the water.

I would suggest, though, that he has a very long way to go to get that design to work as planned. 18 knots is a very big hill to climb with that kind of boat.

My take is that he'd be better of drawing a fresh, ama-mounted, foil trimaran, rather than use a sea kayak as the central hull and starting point. Structure is going to be a whole lot more important than he suggests to get this to work properly and sticking twice the sail area of an AI on this boat is going to need a lot more structure and it has to be very light.

Still, I wish him well and look forward to seeing the development.

 

These boats would die in a week with me because I use the canoe as a tender and the beach landings don't often involve sand in the NW. They do seem fun for the sort of genteel boating I'd like to contemplate.
I've seen Wharrams with horizontal stern foils (tail fins)and wonder if they might be useful to add the stern bearing needed for high speeds without losing kick up rudder capacity by putting on a t-foil. They could always be retracting to avoid drag when paddling. Really, though, maybe they should be pedal auxiliaries if those guys are hitting 17 knots.

 

No substitute for sail area! This is a early rig, the full batten technique is to use thin ply on each side and through bolt them. These day I use a sliding gunter to keep the spar length inside the boat. Off wind without a outrigger the main could be exciting, the safety valve on these boats is to be able to let the sail luff on any course.

 

==============
Cav, that's a neat little boat! I've been thinking of a cat-ketch rig with the sails coming right down to the deck. Seems to allow a lot of sail down low and I've always liked two masted rigs.

Heres the adventure 23-a bit too big:

 

Nice boat!