Little Creek 47

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Kirma, Dec 12, 2020.

  1. Kirma
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: North America

    Kirma Junior Member

    There doesn't appear to be many Little Creek 47's built.

    What are your thoughts on the Little Creek 47's design and it's lifting keel for expeditions that involve navigation into shallow and poorly charted waters, somewhat suitable or not at all?

    Would you agree that the Dix 43, which might still be considered relatively shoal draft and with many more out on the water, might be more proven, largely more stable, and mostly just as capable for the purpose?

    Little Creek 47 https://www.flickr.com/photos/23039635@N03/albums/72157673667236166
    Little Creek 47 multi-chine steel cruisers https://www.dixdesign.com/lc47.htm
    Dix 43 steel radius chine cruising cutter https://www.dixdesign.com/dix43.htm
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2020
  2. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,400
    Likes: 817, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

    Are you planning on building a new boat Kirma, or hoping to buy one of the above mentioned designs second hand?

    It sounds like your heart is set more on the Little Creek 47, rather than the Dix 43 - or is it the other way around?

    If you are building a new boat, then all else being equal the bigger boat will cost more - especially so if you go for a schooner rig rather than a cutter rig.
    Will your budget cover either boat happily?

    If I was in the fortunate position of being able to choose between these vessels, I think I would go for an aft cockpit Dix 43 cutter, simply because I would prefer a cutter to a schooner, and aft cockpit over a centre cockpit.
     
  3. Kirma
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: North America

    Kirma Junior Member

    Spent past 5+ years in CM roles with a mechanical contractor for a number of large-scale heavy industrial projects, know lots of good tradies who could come to work, got access to an underutilized space and most of the necessary equipment, like working on these sorts of projects as a hobby.

    Both are within budget.

    Ideally, I would prefer a cutter rigged ketch, with a centre cockpit and a lifting keel, 45' to 50' in length, built in aluminium.

    But I am opting to build in steel for a number of reasons, not least of which is the difficulty in finding qualified/competent aluminium welders near to where I live in South America.

    Interested in comparing these designs for the differences in their performance and functionality, hearing other peoples opinions about them, particularly more about the Little Creek 47 because there doesn't seem to be much comment on it anywhere.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  4. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 108
    Likes: 38, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Oregon

    rangebowdrie Senior Member

    Perhaps I'm reading more into your use of the word "expedition" than is necessary.
    For "long range" usage, the space/volume requirements for machinery and fuel become higher on the priority scale, as well as the ability to install solar panels in areas not subject to being walked on, in this respect the LC47 seems to suffer.
    Although a staysail schooner can and does have much to recommend for a divided rig, a double-headsail ketch rig might work out better than the schooner rig as he drew it.
    Depending upon your expected use you may, (or not,) want some different interior layout.
    Both vessels have somewhat "chopped up" interiors, in the 43, having to shuttle dishes/food up-and-down steps between galley and table can certainly be a precarious operation at sea, and the 47 layout seem to lack a decent nav-station/chart table/electrical/electronics area, the one shown looks scant for a 47ft boat.
    Neither appears to have good sea-berths, or a storage area for sails.
    Please, no offence meant,, my observations are mostly over layouts and rigs, not so much with the hull designs per se.
     
  5. Kirma
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: North America

    Kirma Junior Member

    No offence taken.

    I'll define expedition as long-range sailing at high latitudes.

    Mostly looking at the hull designs and rigs, considering their seaworthiness.

    I'd change the layouts as much as I could to suit the purpose, without messing with anything structural.

    I don't think the layouts depicted are suitable, I would change the layout to allow for adequate equipment and consumables storage, with nav station, small galley and table, sea-berths, toilet and shower, etc., as well as I could in the space available.
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  6. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 108
    Likes: 38, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Oregon

    rangebowdrie Senior Member

    Without first-hand experience in high latitude sailing, and just going with my gut feelings, I believe that a pilot house version with an aft cockpit is superior for that use,, a place for inside steering/nav/watch berth(s)/wet lockers, perhaps a chair for when you're beat and tired, whilst having the easy mounting for solar on the PH and all around visibility sheltered from the weather.
    Put the 43 Pilot House deck on the 47 hull?
    A Pilot House version might be problematic for a ketch rig,,?, maybe to much "busy" stuff.
    The cutter rig is nice, but if I wanted to go around Cape Horn I'd prefer a lower aspect rig with a lower center of effort, a shorter mast and a longer boom, his rig as shown looks a bit too tall and skinny to my eye for your intended use.
    Ah yes, ain't boat design great,, ask 10 questions, get 20 opinions,,.:)
     
  7. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,400
    Likes: 817, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor

  8. rangebowdrie
    Joined: Nov 2009
    Posts: 108
    Likes: 38, Points: 28, Legacy Rep: 10
    Location: Oregon

    rangebowdrie Senior Member

    I might add; high latitude sailing is more often than not cold and wet, and if possible I would build a galley that would have two stoves, a propane for casual warmer weather use, and a Dickinson diesel stove.
    The little bulkhead mounted jobs can take a chill off, but nothing takes the place of a real diesel range.
    It will provide heat, cooking, and hot water without needing electricity.
    The various hot-air and hydronic units, (like an Espar,) have good features, but they are expensive, with lots of "stuff" to fiddle with or fail, are often times a real headache to install, and need a constant power supply for moving air thru ducts or water thru hoses,, and they won't cook a meal.
    The downside is the Dickinson doesn't like to run in wild/tossed around conditions or at large angles of heel.
     
  9. Kirma
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: North America

    Kirma Junior Member

    A dickinson diesel stove would be reliable, I'd mostly prefer simple systems with few moving parts.

    Seal is a beautiful boat, seems proven to be very capable for the purpose that it serves, I just don't believe that I can find competent aluminium welders where I am now and I am not able to reliably weld aluminium for structural purposes on my own.
     
  10. bajansailor
    Joined: Oct 2007
    Posts: 2,400
    Likes: 817, Points: 113, Legacy Rep: 37
    Location: Barbados

    bajansailor Marine Surveyor


  11. Kirma
    Joined: Dec 2020
    Posts: 8
    Likes: 0, Points: 1
    Location: North America

    Kirma Junior Member

    Though the dix designs aren't perfectly suited to my requirements and preferences, they're available and at the ready most immediately.

    Re-working a design like the Seal for steel construction is another idea to consider.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.