Little America's Cup UK 2013

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, May 8, 2011.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Lac 2013

    Nice summary from Clarksail: http://clarksail.com/2013/09/25/icccc-2013-fleet-race-summarymatch-race-preview/

    Ok so here’s the deal C-Class fans: the foilers are fast, in a big big way. Of the foilers Groupama seems to be the fastest. At least it is definitely the fastest upwind and has been by far the most consistent. However the fleet race portion of the 2013 ICCCC hasn’t worked out as simply a battle between the foiler boats, and then a struggle by the rest to win the non-foiler division. There is a lot more to it than that.

    Throughout fleet racing Franck Cammas has been pretty dominant on board Groupama C. None of the foilers are particularly fast on the beats. That is until the breeze gets up enough that they can foil upwind, which it only did on Day One. However, while the Hydros boats are pretty average upwind until the breeze really comes up, Franck seems to have a point mode that nobody else has. He has basically spent the entire week to this point doing the same thing – he starts at the boat on starboard, climbs over the top of the fleet, crosses everyone as they tack onto port, then he covers and is in the drivers’ seat for the rest of the race. At one point Billy Besson on Hydros I tried to stop Franck having it all his own way at the start, and came over to the boat to slam the door on him, forcing Franck to back out and get a late start. It went exactly according to plan for Billy, but Franck simply pulled in the strings, walked right up behind him, then put the bow down and reached over the top. Franck simply has an upwind point mode that no one seems able to match, so he’s getting to the windward mark well ahead more or less every time. Then he turns the corner and pops up on his foils, and he’s foiling so clean that he’s well in control from that point on.

    So, Groupama has clearly been the fastest boat thus far. However after that it gets murky. There is absolutely no denying the Hydros boys speed off the breeze. When they go around the top mark on their foils they walk past the non foilers like they are standing still. In fact, there was definitely a point on Day Two when Mischa Hemaskeerk seemed to be sailing Hydros II every bit as fast as Groupama on the runs, but a good five degrees lower. However in the light to intermediate breezes they are having some trouble on the beats, which has allowed the fast slippery light air boats like Cogito and Canaan to get involved. In the intermediate breeze of day two Lars Guck consistently had Cogito to the windward mark before atleast one, if not both of the Hydros boats. But then they would turn the corner, start foiling, and it became a different race. On Day Three, when to breeze came down a little further Billy Gooderham was able to gun Groupama down on Canaan once Franck was no longer able to get the windward hull out of the water.


    It really comes down to this; none of the foiler boats are particularly fast upwind, at least not until the breeze really comes up. However Franck is pointing significantly higher than anyone on the race course, foiler or non. This is giving him all the leverage he needs. When the breeze comes up enough the foilers are completely in a league of their own, and Franck is leading the way. When it gets light things get interesting.

    Looking ahead to the match race, if I were Billy Besson and Jeremie Lagarrigue I’d be hoping for breeze. That may seem counter intuitive to some as Franck has not only been the fastest boat thus far, but of the foilers he has been the most consistently under control. From an outsiders’ perspective there definitely seem to be times when the Hydros guys are just barely hanging on. However there is no denying the raw power of the two big black boats. They struggle upwind at times, and they are definitely a little sketchy on the runs when the breeze is up. However their top speed would seem to be their greatest asset. Billy hit 31 on Day One. No one else is hitting those numbers. Thus far they haven’t been able to maintain their speed around the entire course the way Franck has. However it’s still their best bet. If it gets light Franck is going to be pretty hard to cope with on the beats. But if the breeze comes up Billy should be able to stay attached and then perhaps chew into him off the breeze.

    That’s my best guess at least. Others might view it differently, but that’s the way I see it.
     
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  3. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  4. Blackburn
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 841
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: Florida

    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    9am in Falmouth, I'm looking at Thursday's race area from the window of my fleabag hotel, the wind has blown all night but is quickly lessening now.

    There's a thin haze which the sun should burn through soon, which will be good for the video. Most likely plenty of racing today.

    ;)
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ----------------------
    I envy you! Have fun! And take notes on any of the details of the boats that you run across like; Huh?

    1) Hydros foil control system,
    2) Groupama's mast canting system
    3) And anything else you find!
     
  6. Blackburn
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 841
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: Florida

    Blackburn Senior Member

    ^^^


    Regarding the huh?, on the Thursday the racing was just to the southwest of Pendennis Point and I could've watched it from my hotel bed had there been a little less fog! We were on the water though and saw things close up.

    That was excellent, since after Thursday there was precious little racing and we spent our time in convivial chatter around the club and boat storage area. Some people thought the Groupama team were less convivial and more secretive than others, but that may partly be on account of their preference for speaking French - Martin Fischer did his best to compensate for the the rest of the Goupama team's secludedness.

    I've tried to start catching up on what been posted here and there; the Hydros team has now Youtubed some stuff from Saturday at the end of the vid below. And here's a tweeted photo showing the condition of their wing after the third race, which Cammas preferred not to start in.

    [​IMG]


     
  7. Blackburn
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 841
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: Florida

    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    Here's something posted on Scanvoile (a French page) yesterday, which I haven't seen translated anywhere else yet:

     
  8. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    2013 Little America's Cup

    Spectacular sailing shots in that video, Blackburn-thanks.
     
  9. Blackburn
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 841
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: Florida

    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    I find that the source for those quotes above in Scanvoile, came from the Cammas/Groupama webpage, where there is far better translation and some additional text - link below for the aficionados.

    Here's the rather entertaining Groupama decription of the race committee's efforts to get something started on Saturday! Of course Groupama had a big rib sporting far more electronics and wind instruments than was available to the race committee itself, so you could say they made a more informed decision when they opted to remain on shore - What a shame that Hydros capsized, or Franck might have eventually been forced to come out and play:

     
  10. Blackburn
    Joined: May 2013
    Posts: 841
    Likes: 8, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 25
    Location: Florida

    Blackburn Senior Member

    ...

    A couple of quotes from a good article by James Boyd:


    :rolleyes:

    ... Which shows how despite his great familiarity with toadying to sponsors and alleged VIPs at SNG terrace cocktail parties, Jeremie Lagarrigue has no faquing manners whatsoever and cannot maintain any decorum, even at a lowly English campsite. lol


    Should the AC teams descend as James describes upon the C-Class, they should pay all the non-AC guys to turn up anyway, and blather endlessly about the intricacies of their boats with any idle passers-by. They are refreshingly good at that, compared to the more highly paid hands who are jealously guarding their little secrets.

    It never looks like James is having any fun, all the time slaving at his keyboard day and night. But he somehow writes the best articles, even so.
     
  11. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    "Tour" of the Hydros C Class-2nd in 2013, from SA:
    http://vimeo.com/76441159


    =========================
    Notes I took on this video-didn't take any notes on the wing:
    1) very low drag hull.....
    2) noticed a number of constrictors used on the boat,
    3) foil angle of incidence controlled by skipper via a line from the lee side.
    a. start with max rake(max angle of incidence) then reduce it.
    4) foil cant;
    a. cant moves the head of the board outboard(or inboard). Max cant is with the head outboard and configuration is similar at that point to the "uptip" TNZ foil,
    b. max cant creates sideforce,
    c. they cant to start foiling then reduce it
    5) lots of purchase on board line because they use it to lift the boat when foil is supporting weight.
    6) Like groupama trapeze is used to lift board up after tacking or gybing.
    7) Mention is made of a "Zed" line(Z axis) but I didn't quite get it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  12. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  13. redreuben
    Joined: Jan 2009
    Posts: 2,000
    Likes: 223, Points: 63, Legacy Rep: 349
    Location: South Lake Western Australia

    redreuben redreuben

    Oh I've learnt a new sailing term "Archimedian mode" i.e. displacement mode as opposed to foiling.
    Crack up !
    :D
     
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ---------------------------
    To help with your education: non-foiling boat= seahugger
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,679
    Likes: 349, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.