Little America's Cup 2010-C CLass-the real one..

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by Doug Lord, Apr 12, 2010.

  1. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    --------------
    Well, thats easy "B"-outside of the obvious ridiculousness of insisting that C Class guys post details of their race boats before the Little Americas Cup- they aren't posting on a "boatdesign" forum. Those designers and others that do post on this forum should give serious consideration to posting the science that backs up their design-including design ratios and other important details. And where possible they should post those figures for both boats when comparing one with another. Failing to do that leaves just fluff that neither other designers, students or other boatdesign.com contributors can learn from. It should be the standard of these forums. Too many "designers" are content to post pretty renderings with absolutely no design detail to back it up. A pretty picture with no science behind it is virtually meaningless.
     
  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Attached Files:

  3. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Numbers without technical drawings are meaningless. A boat cannot be built from lists of numbers.

    You should keep that in mind.
     
  4. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    --------------------------
    Numbers can serve as the basis from which it is possible to do technical drawings. The numbers themselves paint a distinct picture of the characteristics of any boat. I, and many others, use the science to define the target characteristics of any particular design before doing any drawings(except, maybe, preliminary sketches)-constantly refining both as the process develops.
     
  5. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =====================
    Sure "B"-you know nothing of the kind . So I thought I'd look at your gallery to see all your designs and the boats you built. Imagine my surprise when I realized there is not one single boat there-no designs, no preliminery sketches, absolutely nothing. Impressive.....

    "Paul B's" accomplishments: http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/profile/paul-b.html
     
  6. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Actually, you have to make up stuff about me, don't you Ostlind-I wonder how all those boats on my gallery-and others got built?
    One things for sure you have never, ever posted any design details using the commonly accepted Design Ratio's for any "design" of yours posted on this forum. The difference with Antrim is that he is not posting his stuff on a DESIGN forum-you are and you leave out the DESIGN details-every time.

    PS- how many of your "designs" have actually been built? How many boats have been produced from your "designs'?




    --------------------------
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2010
  7. Paul B

    Paul B Previous Member

    Funny stuff.

    You are correct. I have neither designed nor built any boats.

    However, companies that employed me as a designer/engineer have designed and built many, many boats. Some I even did tachnical drawings for.

    Then again, I have not spent the past 8 or so years claiming I was "designing" or "building" boats that were never produced in either drawing or actual construction.

    During that time there have been many, many non-boating items introduced into commerce wolrdwide that had mechanisms designed wholly or in part by me. Hundreds of millions of items produced in fact. That claim is not a mistake or exaggeration.

    But it isn't about me is it? You claim you've designed boats, but have demonstrated your inability to do the actual drawings required for design work. How do you explain that?
     
  8. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    =================================
    No, actually I didn't "concoct" the "Design Ratio's" used by every reputable designer, sorry.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    Get a room

    Guys Chris and Doug, in short get a room you both utter such crap I find it hard to come on here and before you go on with further crap Chris with your very well worded ramblings I really do not give a hoot re your opinion of me or mine. You both quote well reputed designers as an assertion of your knowledge however you could both take a bit from their book and stop the crap. How often do you see Eric or Mr Wood or any of the other quoted designers utter such crap as you two do.........????
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ----------------------------------
    Sorry, but given the situation, I don't think I "uttered crap". My apologies to the extent I am wrong..... I started this thread because I love the LAC and what it represents and I've been steadily adding information from the begining. On these -or any other forums- people may say things that you know to be wrong, misleading or a complete and deliberate misrepresentation of the facts. One has a choice at that point-to let it go or to respond. I wrestle with that frequently and some times make the wrong choice. On the other hand ,I sometimes do it right. It all depends on how much it means to you......
     
  11. outside the box

    outside the box Previous Member

    All good Doug and sorry if I seemed opinionated towards you and your threads. I was actually referring to your counterpart, as I find your postings and comments stimulate open thought, but whatever site I go onto the same person is rambling and knocking others and voicing his own self centred opinionated opinion of you or others as though his view is the be all and end all. I have done much research of said person before commenting and find little to back up said ramblings.
    One of our present clients asked of said person through his web site some very good questions of his design of the time being promoted and got no reply, client gave up.
    I am usually a very tolerant person but found myself thinking yesterday enough is enough. I hope you continue to seek advice and share findings as is that not what these forums are all about???
    Kind Regards
    Craig
    Ezifold Group Ltd
    NZ
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    ======================
    Thanks Craig. As I said yesterday when one is attacked, misrepresented ect there are a couple of choices. You ignore it which may or may not be appropriate-same with responding. When I choose to respond I'm aware of the possibility of a good thread being sullied by what may appear to others as a "**** fight" or two pigs groveling in the mud.
    Sometimes one can make the decision to respond because of the seriousness of the issues.
    I'm the first to be upset to see a Little America's Cup thread go off track in what seems like personal BS. It's tough to do the "right" thing-and even then it's hard to be sure.
    I welcome your comments and hope you'll look at the 18' thread and 10-14' thread where I have presented some ideas based on many years of sailing ,racing and multihull experience. I try to present details that are well researched(I hope) to back up my "theory".
    Whether I agree with you or not you can be assured I will respect your opinion.
    I think there are many areas of design-on-deck sliding ballast(Design Challenge Thread,60' Moth thread) and small trimaran innovation that could result in new ways to sail- and that interests me a great deal.
    So I hope you'll feel welcome and that you'll lend some of your expertise to
    the various threads.....
     
    1 person likes this.
  13. mark775

    mark775 Guest

    Doug, I am intrigued and enlightened by your threads. I don't have much constructive to add but wanted to let you know that I appreciate and am disturbed that the moderator allows the stalkers to follow and pester you. Keep up the good work!
     
  14. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    From Scuttlebutt last night:

    INTERNATIONAL C CLASS CATAMARAN CHAMPIONSHIP 2010
    In the last week of August a visitor to Newport, RI may look south across
    the harbor and see the wing sails of seven C Class catamarans on the lawn in
    front of Harbor Court, New York Yacht Club's Newport Station. This will be
    quite a sight.

    The New York Yacht Club, after all, is the club that banned multihulls after
    Nathaniel G Herreshoff's Amaryllis completely outclassed their racing fleet
    during the Second Centennial Regatta of 1874. When making the case that the
    yachting establishment is prejudiced against multihulls, the NYYC's response
    has long been shown as Exhibit A. The wings on the lawn should go a long way
    to proving that 1874 was a long time ago and that the attitudes have
    changed.

    The International C Class Catamaran Championship (IC^4) will be hosted at
    New York Yacht Club in Newport, RI from August 22-28, 2010. The IC^4 is the
    successor to the Little America's Cup as the championship event for the C
    class catamarans. Fred Eaton of the Royal Canadian Yacht Club (RCYC) won the
    trophy from Steve Clark during the last event held by RCYC in September
    2007. In the next event Eaton will be defending for RCYC and Clark, who will
    be representing New York Yacht Club, will be among the challengers.

    Teams from Great Britain, Canada, and USA will be competing. This week
    Scuttlebutt will provide updates from each of the teams:

    GBR - Great Britain will be represented by Invictus. Team Invictus, which
    debuted with a third place finish in 2003, will be back with a new wing and
    a more practiced program. Their platform, designed by Clive Everest is
    unchanged except for new centerboards and rudders. In 2003 their performance
    was hampered by a split flap wing design that was completely untested. Once
    they had sorted the control system, the split flap was uncompetitive and
    could not deliver enough lift without an enormous drag penalty.

    The team, which is largely made up of Airbus employees, returned to Filton
    in England with the intent of building a state-of-the-art wing. It took them
    a little longer than they would have liked, but they have been sailing the
    new wing for most of a year and have continued test and refine the boat.
    Their sailing team includes Paul Larson, who has spent the last seven years
    pursuing the outright speed sailing record with Sail Rocket. While the speed
    record eluded him, Sail Rocket's long jumps have been spectacular. For more
    information on Invictus, see
    http://www.teaminvictus.com.

    Look for Scuttlebutt 3124 to have an update on Canada. Full report:
    http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/10/0521/
     

  15. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
    Posts: 16,653
    Likes: 322, Points: 93, Legacy Rep: 1362
    Location: Cocoa, Florida

    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    More from Scuttlebutt tonight:

    The United States will be represented by Steve Clark's venerable "Cogito",
    which has been the standard of excellence for over 10 years. Cogito was
    swept by Alpha in the 2008 series, but Steve and Duncan MacLane think this
    was more their fault than the boats. She remains a potent weapon, fully
    capable of winning the regatta. Steve is also building a new boat to his own
    design which he hopes will be an improvement on Cogito.

    The new boat has been taking form in his work shop for the last year and has
    a number of features which, while not new in and of themselves, have been
    blended together in an attempt to significantly improve the high speed sea
    keeping and handling of the catamaran. The wing is a further iteration of
    the proven Cogito wing, with attention to improving twist control, cleaning
    up the aero surfaces, and reducing weight. Duncan MacLane, Lars Guck, Oliver
    Moore and Steve Clark are the sailing team. Bill Slinko leads the support
    team. David Hubbard is the senior emeritus wing nut who provides performance
    analysis, perspective and moral superiority.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ----
    C Class catamarans are certainly among the most efficient sailing machines
    and achieve remarkable speeds in very moderate winds. The International C
    Class Catamaran Championship begins with a nine race series of fleet racing
    to determine the seeding for the match racing. The top two seeds have a
    best-of-9 match race series for the trophy. The third and fourth seeds as
    well as the fifth and sixth seeds also square off in match racing series.
    The course is a 6 mile windward-leeward, with one mile legs and three races
    each day. The course area will be weather dependent, but either north of the
    Newport Bridge within Narragansett Bay or off Beavertail. The racing
    promises to be spectacular.
    Complete report: http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/news/10/0521

    PIX-Steve Clarks new boat undergoing load testing: (pix from SA thread-see url in a prior post)
     

    Attached Files:

Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.