Lion 800 new plywood yacht

Discussion in 'Boat Design' started by Unik, Jul 22, 2016.

  1. WestVanHan
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    WestVanHan Not a Senior Member

    I think there would be a market if you offered plans and kits for a reasonably priced aft cabin sail boat-with an efficient layout- in the 10 meter range.
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    As you should know, to market boats in the EU, ships must obtain the "CE" marking. Can you prove that your boats have obtained this mark?
     
  3. Unik
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    Unik Senior Member

    All boats we design in accordance with Directive 94/25/EC, in connection with the release of the new requirements in Directive 2013/53/EU we check compliance with the new rules
     
  4. Unik
    Joined: Dec 2015
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    Unik Senior Member

    The release of the draft of the yacht in the amount of 9-10 meters, we are planning next year.
     
  5. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Forgive my insistence but I think this is an important issue. I do not ask if you check the project and the construction of your boat, but to know if any entity authorized by the administration certifies your boats as "compliant" and, therefore, assigns them the CE mark.
    Could you show us, for example, the User's Manual, which must accompany each boat?.
    On the other hand, I would like to congratulate you on all the orders you are having. In these times it is gratifying to know about a boat-related business that works so well.
     
  6. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    Does the actual kit really need a CE rating in the manual like a regular product when it is just a bunch of cut pieces of wood for the home builder?
     
  7. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    I kind of doubt that. You can register all kinds if home builds in many EU countrues and I would think that a kit falls under a home build rules.
     
  8. Unik
    Joined: Dec 2015
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    Unik Senior Member

    The certificate of conformity with the "CE" marking is assigned only ready built at the shipyard boats intended for sale in the European market. The boats are built according to our projects at the shipyard for sale can be certified by DNV or Lloyds, Ukrainian Maritime register, or other on customer request. Kit for self construction not subject to certification. Sample Technical guidance can be viewed here, but on this boat CE requirements do not apply

    http://unikyachts.com/en/2859-2-2/
    http://unikyachts.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/HOVERCRAFT-T50.pdf
    Translation Technical guidance is made quickly and solely for information
     
  9. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    It is not that the boats can be certified by a Classification Society. Everything can be certified by a CS. But that has nothing to do with the CE marking. To obtain the CE mark a boat must comply with many rules and conditions but none corresponding to a CS.
    It is very possible that a kit does not require any certification but when the kit is assembled and a boat is built, it can carry a person and that therefore can pose a danger to them, that is a boat, not a kit, that does need to comply with certain standards.
    Your renders are precious and, in addition to some structural details that should be improved, we do not know anything about their stability and safety in general. It would be important and interesting to have information about all that.
     
  10. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    CE seems to be much more about tracking what material was used etc. Regardless self made boats can be registered with very light bureucracy in Finland (I know for a fact). And I beli ve that is the case in many other countries too.

    TANSL, don't you usually encourage any crackpot that finds this forum to design their own boats? Why so negative this time?
     
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  11. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Kerosene, I do not pretend to be negative on this occasion, on the contrary, what I want to do is warn Unik about certain aspects that, apparently, he has not taken into account. When he launches his product to the market, after investing hundreds of hours and resources, and realizes that for a few papers he can not market it, he will feel very frustrated. I intend to save him many sufferings and a lot of money.
    If in Spain, for example, there is no market for boats constructed by amateurs, it is not because the Spaniards do not love the sea, but because of the number of obstacles that the administration imposes on the amateur construction of boats.
    I have designed boats that are sold, at this moment, as kits in the USA, but I have not even tried it in my country.
    CE mark is not only about the materials to be used but also deals with absolutely all aspects to be taken into account in the project, stability, safety, equipment and construction of the boats. See attached the list of ISO standards to be met. (The CE mark requires compliance with all these standards)
    Believe me, this time, too, I intend to help.
     

    Attached Files:

  12. kerosene
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    kerosene Senior Member

    There seems to be very different procedures in different EU countries. Here I can design and build own boat and only stipulation is that I cannot sell it until a few years have passed. This is to prevent professional manufacturing under disguise of being homebuilt.
    I know Finland is not the only country with relaxed approach towards DIY boats.
     
  13. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    Whatever the regulations that a designer wishes to apply or is obliged to apply, there is always the "good practice" in shipbuilding and in this design, in the structure that is the only thing we know, there are solutions that I would never apply to my design. The OP is doing other things and is in its right to do them.
    My opinion.
     
  14. RAraujo
    Joined: Apr 2010
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    RAraujo Naval Architect

    Regarding the applicability of Directive 2013/53/EU on Recreational Craft:

    QUOTE
    1. This Directive shall apply to the following products:
    (a)
    recreational craft and partly completed recreational craft;
    ...

    2. This Directive shall not apply to the following products:
    (a) with regard to the design and construction requirements set out in Part A of Annex I:
    ...
    (vii) watercraft built for own use, provided that they are not subsequently placed on the Union market during a period of five years from the putting into service of the watercraft;
    ...
    UNQUOTE

    I think that a boat in kit form (other than almost complete kits with the hull almost completed), built for own use, is not covered by the Directive thus not requiring certification as it should be included under 2(a)(vii)... It cannot be put in the market for 5 years...
     

  15. DennisRB
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    DennisRB Senior Member

    If was in the market and 2 similar boats were desirable, but I could sell one sooner than 5 years because it met the CE mark I would prefer that. But would it then also require a surveyor during the build?
     
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