leaking capilano steering ram at seal

Discussion in 'Inboards' started by Northeaster, Jun 20, 2016.

  1. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Hi folks- finally installed my new-to-me used capilano 1250 helm and 150 or 175 series ram - think 175 but will have to measure as no label on it....

    leaking at the seal where rod comes in and out, mostly when turned hard over.
    I see you can buy seal kits - of course I need to verify my model, but shipping may take a while - Are those seals standard sizes, i.e. something an experienced hydraulic shop would be able to provide if unit or old seals were brought in for measurement?
     
  2. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

    I dont know your particular ram , but they would be commonly used seals. Lip seal outside, O rings, piston seal and wear guides inside . The lip seal will have a size molded into the seal . Sometime seals can be troublesome to find ....metric dimensions in a non metric world. A good hydraulic shop can help. I am always servicing rams...ive never come across custom seals.

    Many times I let the hydraluic shop service rams.. They are really oily and messy to service.


    [​IMG]screen capture software

    .
     
  3. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Thank you for the reply and great info!

    My father-in-law had heavy equipment for 30 years and serviced a lot of the more common hydraulics. He will likely take the ram apart in the next few days and either bring seals or all into a local shop to see if they have the parts.
     
  4. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Well, it wasn't as easy to take apart as I thought....
    watched a video on youtube where a guy shows how to take similar model apart, but have questions.

    He took the trunion mount / bearing bracket off, after first removing fittings. and then turned the inner cylinder (inside the outer cylinder) by hand I think, to expose the retaining clips and shows how to tale those out. Then he does same for ram end.

    I wasn't going to to take off trunion bracket as it's not leaking at that end, and the nuts/ bolts holding it together are too bad too take off without causing other issues...

    But, do I have to take it off first??? When I try rotating the end of the inner cylinder on the ram end, even with a pipe wrench ( going easy not to scar too bad....) it does not rotate in the outer one at all, so can't see clips, etc..

    Any further help would be greatly appreciated!!
     
  5. michael pierzga
    Joined: Dec 2008
    Posts: 4,862
    Likes: 115, Points: 0, Legacy Rep: 1180
    Location: spain

    michael pierzga Senior Member

  6. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    OK - thanks very much - we will remove other end first, replacing old bolts/nut and will take it for service if we cant get inner cylinder out. not likely worth buying spanner wrench for 1 unit...
     
  7. kapnD
    Joined: Jan 2003
    Posts: 819
    Likes: 123, Points: 43, Legacy Rep: 40
    Location: hawaii, usa

    kapnD Senior Member

    Seems like a REALLY good reason to remove it!
    Maybe the leaks are really a safety valve to avoid overstressing the weak bolts?
     
  8. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,189
    Likes: 925, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

    The nut at the outside, which is also the bushing where the shaft turns, is a usual culprit. As the hole wears out, the shaft wobbles and the seals can't expand enough to keep the oil from leaking. The combination of wear is the problem. A new seal may work for a while, but first check for excessive play. I have repaired them by machining the hole and sleeving it with a bronze bushing.
     
  9. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    thanks folks. I have a backup ram in and working, but I want to get this one fixed for the future. I will take it to a local hydraulic shop top have it taken apart and assessed for wear / play..
     
  10. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    I have a spare ram working so now not in a rush, but do want to get the other one opened up and replace seals

    I left it at a hydraulic shop but they are more heavy equipment than marine and didn't seem to know the type and how to get into it.
    Thinking of just picking it up and soaking in diesel for a couple of weeks to see if that loosens it up between inner and outer sleeves. Anyone think that would help or hurt any components?
    I could order a proper spanner wrench on line as well, so I would have it for future.
     
  11. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    update- finally decided to tackle my sea star capilano BA-175 cylinder- i had to carefully heat the outer cylinder to get it apart - bought a new seal kit but I have a couple of questions - i did email their technical support guys, and am hoping for answers today.
    I'll post here though, in case someone knows the answers off hand please.


    I hope you can reply or perhaps call re: the way that the molded end cap fits back onto the ram end of the BA-175 cylinder.


    I have attached a pics of the old end cap- does the protruding bevelled center go to the inside to press against the quad ring or 0 – ring? (Mine is about 20 years old so came with o rings..) or does it face outside to act as a wiper ring / dirt ring? It was assembled with the protruding center to the inside, but I bought it used, and want to confirm that it was in correct, as it was leaking…



    The instructions and kit mention the quad rings, but it seems much more difficult to get the small o ring inside of the quad ring in position – Can I just use new O rings of same size that came out of it, instead of the quad rings?
     

    Attached Files:

  12. gonzo
    Joined: Aug 2002
    Posts: 15,189
    Likes: 925, Points: 123, Legacy Rep: 2031
    Location: Milwaukee, WI

    gonzo Senior Member

  13. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    Hi Gonzo - I should have been more clear. Seal kit came with quad rings, but instructions said cylinders more than about 10 years old originally came with o rings, so you could use o rings or change now to quad rings. The quad rings they sent look like a regular quad ring, but have a very thin o ring which sits in side of the two lips of the quad ring. Trying to keep than thin o ring sitting in place while passing the shaft through it is very difficult. The quad ring on its own is too loose on the shaft. I did order the correct seal kit for my cylinder bore and shaft diameter.

    Second issue is which was how the molded end cap fits on - protruding center to inside to put pressure on quad ring or protruding center to outside to act as wiper ring - it looks like the end cap is a built in wiper ring, as there is no space / slot for any other wiper / dirt ring. \end cap pictured is chewed up from removal, but the center is beveled like a wiper ring when new.
     
  14. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    I received a call from Sea Star's technical support guys and they were very helpful - pretty impressive taking their time with me and providing me with additional info and drawings on a product that was made and sold 20 years ago.
    He confirmed that the end cap's side with the protruding center faces out, to effectively be a wiper ring.
    And, the big thing we were missing was a backup ring ring which goes against the quad ring (or O ring in older models like mine came with originally)
    He had never heard of the quad ring having a smaller thin o ring inside of it - funny though as that as how it came in the seal kit.
    I think we will be ok now using either the quad rings or o rings ( as it came originally) as long as we use a backup ring against either of them - I assume it pressed the quad ring or o ring and basically plumps it up a bit, so it will seal better.
    When we put it together earlier, we were missing the backup rings (as they were not in the basic instructions) and the end cap was backwards and the protruding center would have put pressure on the quad ring, and not a consistent pressure like the backup ring, as it was bevelled/ tapered.
     

  15. Northeaster
    Joined: Sep 2011
    Posts: 265
    Likes: 8, Points: 18, Legacy Rep: 45
    Location: Eastern Canada

    Northeaster Senior Member

    We re-installed with backing ring against replacement o-rings (same size as originals) and end cap in proper orientation, and it has not leaked in moving rudder back and forth numerous times, albeit not under running loads.
     
Loading...
Forum posts represent the experience, opinion, and view of individual users. Boat Design Net does not necessarily endorse nor share the view of each individual post.
When making potentially dangerous or financial decisions, always employ and consult appropriate professionals. Your circumstances or experience may be different.