Lateen sails

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by velelatine, Nov 12, 2006.

  1. velelatine
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    velelatine Junior Member

    A lateen (from a la trina, meaning triangular) is a triangular sail set on a long yardarm mounted at an angle on the mast, and running in a fore-and-aft direction. Originally found on sailing ships, the lateen is used today in a slightly different form on small boats like the highly popular Sunfish.

    All about the Lateen Sails in Italy: Vele Latine

    [​IMG]
     
  2. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    Beautiful pictures, veleletine.

    I agree with Phil Bolger that the lateen sail has unexplored possibillities.

    On my first sail boat design, I drew a 45-90 degree one, so the boat could have a very short mast and would be easy to set up on a beach. Being that the boom and yard were connected, Sunfish style, there was no chance of the long yard getting out of control as the sail was lowered or raised.

    It is my belief that some modernised version of both the latteen and the balanced lug can both be made into good off shore sails.

    Thanks again for the pictures.

    Bob
     
  3. Doug Lord

    Doug Lord Guest

    H10

    Garry Hoyt has come up with a new boat that he hopes will fit in between an Optimist and a Laser.
    He calls it the H10 and it is all carbon/epoxy. After a lot of research he has settled on a Lateen rig....
     
  4. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Another nice picture (From Vele Latine's site). :)
     

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  5. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

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  6. mcm
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    mcm Senior Member

    OK, the mediterranean lateen.

    Beautiful, but isn't the tall rig in Guillermo's last photo just as expensive as a mast-head bermuda-rig.

    Moreover, in Velelatine's first photo, the sail is set on a forward raked mast, while in Guillermo's last photo, the sail is set on a tall straight-up perpendicular mast.

    Why the difference? What's the advantages of one over the other?

    Do they sail just as well on either tack?

    And what about the Oceanic South-Sea Lateen (crab-claw)?

    And has ANYBODY had any experience with this UNSTAYED south-sea rig on any hull other than a Proa?
     
  7. velelatine
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    velelatine Junior Member

    Another nice picture. :cool:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    I would love to watch a match race among one of your type of boats and the Canary islands one. They seem to be of about the same size.
    Cheers.
     
  9. velelatine
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    velelatine Junior Member

    Nice idea :D
     
  10. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Depends on what length of the top part of the perch you want unsupported. You play with rake and height of the mast. Canary boats have a long and vertical mast, giving the sail a higher aspect ratio and making the unsupported end quite short, to allow for better characteristics when beating to winward

    For the Canary boats yes, because they swing the sail from one side to the other by the back of the mast when tacking. This maneouvre is easier also because of the vertical mast and shorter top of the perch. See attached photos. In other types of boats this maneouvre is not done and so you have a 'good' and a 'bad' side
     

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  11. mcm
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    mcm Senior Member

    Thanks alot Guillermo,

    Those were great explanations.

    I've got another question you might be able to answer for me:

    How does one go about reefing a lateen sail?
     
  12. velelatine
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    velelatine Junior Member

    The jib makes to have a great advantages :D

    My boat.
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    Very nice boat, Velelatine! Congratulations!
    (By the way, may I know your name? Just not to call you velelatine)
    As per your photo you are sailing with the sail on the winward side of the mast, let's call it the 'wrong' side. Is it possible to swing the sail when changing wind side? If so, how do you swing the sail: turning the boat with the wind by the bow (tacking) or by the stern (wearing)?

    As far as I know jibs are a relatively modern addition to lateen rigs (If I'm not wrong, jibs were invented by the dutchs by the end of the XVI beginning of the XVII centuries). In my opinion jibs are used with lateen rigs to increase the sail area without raising the center of effort, so making boats more manegeable with shorter crews. The Canary boats go the other way round, this is, bringing the lateen rig to its limits by rising its height, because those are boats conceived only for racing. Jibs probably also helps to steady the flow in the back of a 'wronged' sided lateen sail, so increasing its efficiency (I'm not an expert in lateen rigs at all. Probably you, Velelatine, may be of more help here)

    mcm,
    (May I know your name also?)
    Lateen sails were not reefed but substituted by an storm sail in the ancient times. Later, reefing bands were added either parallel to the yard or to the foot, as in bermudan sails.
    I attach some images of lateen sails to exemplify what I'm saying. Two of them show lateen rigged boats being sailed the 'wrong' side (We call it "navegar a la mala" in Spain), a third shows the reefing bands in a three masted 'Balancelle', and the fourth shows a 'Muleta', the most bizarre lateen rig I know.

    Cheers
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Guillermo
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    Guillermo Ingeniero Naval

    You may find of interest these pages about the Nabateans, an Arab tribe said to be the first ones to traded with India by sea. They sailed the Med, the Red Sea and the Indic Ocean (And maybe even all the way up to China), using lateen rigged boats.
    http://nabataea.net/sailing.html
    (You can find there a huge bibliography regarding lateen rigs)

    Cheers
     

  15. velelatine
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    velelatine Junior Member

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