Lateen Rig on Hobie Cat?

Discussion in 'Multihulls' started by CardboardKing, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. alan craig
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    alan craig Senior Member

    Just had another idea - isn't it great when you can tell others what to do without taking any responsibility! Find a jib with the same luff length as the original but a much longer foot, a genoa I suppose. More area than the standard jib and removes the problem of getting under the boom - no boom, no mainsail.
     
  2. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    The H16, somewhat de-powered/reefed, is very docile. Even better for ease of handling is fitting a non-battened roller furling jib. They were sold for rental boats, and are easy to retro fit since both the H18 and the H14 turbo's used them. Used with a shorter main, the h16 can be used in some pretty extreme conditions with out loss of control or dumping it.
    If mom is a "water person" she should be just fine. :)
    B
     
  3. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Cut down the main.
    If you have wing seats there is no reason to cut the mast - so you can sail it normally (with another sail). 2 feet off the main will make a significant difference.
    The thing you need to worry about is burying the bow into the water - that will spoil your day quickly.
    But if you just don't go out in heavy weather, sheet out early, move your weight as necessary (fwd in heavy wind upwind, back when going downwind or on a reach), and learn to sail before taking your grandmother out - you should be able to manage with the original sail.

    Don't try to sail with the jib only, it will sail very badly.

    Hobie 16's don't come with reef points.

    10's of thousands of people learned to safely sail the Hobie. Just don't push it in heavy wind.
     
  4. bruceb
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    bruceb Senior Member

    UC, I beg to differ. I was a hobie dealer, and ALL! 16s used to come with one set of reef points in the main. Most people didn't use them, but all the earlier boats had them, and instructions on how to use them. It really tames the boat. After market and "racing" sails might not have the reef points, but they are easy to add. The rack extensions were never sold for the 16 from the factory, and don't work very well on the 16 unless you sail solo (light). The 16 doesn't have enough hull volume. Traps do work, either single or double, but might be a bit much for his mom ;). I am over 65, and I still enjoy getting out on one!
    B
     
  5. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    You learn something new all the time.
    I can't remember the one I sailed (occasionally) having reef points, and certainly no gear to make it work.
    I just looked at pictures, and none of the boats showed reef points.

    Do you have a picture with reef points?

    Marc
     
  6. gypsy28
    Joined: Mar 2010
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    gypsy28 Senior Member

    Older H16 mains definitely had reef points in the second panel from the bottom. Not sure when they stopped putting the reef points in (late 80s/early 90s I think)

    Some of my mates and I have had local sail makers put reef points in our H16 sails as we do a lot of solo offshore camping trips so having the option to reef down if needed is a very valuable option. Its easy on the beach, not so easy while on the water but do-able.

    You can see the first set of reef points in the 2nd panel right above the Hogs Breath Cafe. The second set of reef points is in the 4th panel just above the pig. P5050534.JPG P5050535.JPG
     
  7. CardboardKing
    Joined: Mar 2013
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    CardboardKing Junior Member

    Okay, I really like this idea, so I just ordered a new (used) sail from Masthead Sailing Gear that has the same luff length, but a slightly (15cm) shorter leech and a luff perpendicular that is 50cm longer than the original jib's. The foot of the original is around 150cm, so I figure that would make it about a 140% genoa.

    I haven't received the sail yet, but I'm planning on outfitting it with a roller. Other than that, what kind of changes to my rigging should I anticipate having to make?
     
  8. Blueknarr
    Joined: Aug 2017
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    I haven't received the sail yet, but I'm planning on outfitting it with a roller. Other than that, what kind of changes to my rigging should I anticipate having to make?[/QUOTE]

    Let's see:
    -Roller drum
    -Roller luff track
    -Head swivel car
    -Drum control lines and cleats
    -Lowering halyard exit on mast to maintain minimum10 degree angle to forstay at max hoist
    -Relocating jib fairleads
    -Longer jib sheets
    +Moving dagger boards forward to counteract leehealm indused by moving center of sail area forward
     
  9. CardboardKing
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    CardboardKing Junior Member

    This boat doesn't have daggerboards or anything similar. Everything else I have already considered and begun thinking about.

    My questions is: To where will I end up having to move the jib fairleads? I'm guessing I'll have to put them on the sides of the metal frame, much further out and aft than their current positions.
     
  10. Blueknarr
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    Blueknarr Senior Member

    My questions is: To where will I end up having to move the jib fairleads? I'm guessing I'll have to put them on the sides of the metal frame, much further out and aft than their current positions.[/QUOTE]


    Trial and error.
    Start by placing leads where a line extending the sail's luff perpendicular intersects tube rail. Using hose clamps to attach blocks would allow for easy adjustments.

    A more complex adjustable on the fly system. Primary lead blocks well aft of ideal location and twaining blocks forward. The twins would pull down on jib sheet effctivly tightening leach. Ease to depower by opening leach and spilling off air.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
  11. Blueknarr
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    Blueknarr Senior Member


    Hobies are mainsail driven. Moving your body weight forward will move the hull's center of lateral resistance forward helping to mitigate the extreme Lee helm of not having any maintain deployed. However, my experience has been that, a Hobie without a main will only go down wind. Even reaching 90 deg is impossible.

    Good luck
     
  12. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    This is a total bust.
    Removing the main will make the boat uncontrollable.
    Moving the jib sheets out to the rail will ruin any potential upwind capability, but I believe Blueknarr that you will never get there anyway.

    So what you really need, is a set of centerboards or leeboards forward of the front beam.

    Be sure to have a power boat around to come get you when you try the boat out.

    How much money are you willing to throw away to show us wrong?

    Do you know anyone with a hobie where you could try out the boat with just the normal jib? That would be a simple test.

    Cut panels off the main, at least you will have a chance of the boat sailing, and it will cost you a lot less.
     
  13. CardboardKing
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    CardboardKing Junior Member

    That's exactly what I was thinking.

    Would it not be possible to keep the main on board and hoist it if things don't go well with the headsail-only rig?

    This isn't about being right. I just like doing things my own way. I am a non-conformist by birth, so taking what is the most popular beach catamaran and sailing it the way everyone else sails it is just not my style.

    What kind of performance could I expect with a reefed main AND my new roller-furling 140% genoa? (without the extra leeboards)
     
  14. CT249
    Joined: May 2003
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    CT249 Senior Member

    Does being a non-conformist mean you have to do something that won't work? Do you walk backwards down the street, drink your coffee with a fork and carry your bicycle strapped to your back and ride your shoes just because everyone else does it the other way? :)

    Having a genoa-only rig isn't new to sailing; in fact since roller furling came in the most "conservative" sailors (ie the older people who sail Catalinas and Beneteaus) have spent much of their time just using a big genoa and no mainsail. So in some ways, you'll actually be joining the yacht club set with this idea. By the way, until the Hobie came along the world's most popular cat had a lateen rig as do the racing dhows of arch-conservative Arab oil sheikhs, so lateens are very conformist.

    If you DO do this, please make sure you have the boat underneath the trailer so it drags along the road on its hulls on the way to the water, because having the boat on top of the trailer is so passe! :)
     

  15. upchurchmr
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    upchurchmr Senior Member

    Cardboardking,

    Why would you ever ask how some idea will work? That just makes you a follower.
    Be a real nonconformist - don't ask other (conformist's) opinion.

    Please, go out in any silly idea you have, fail miserably, let us know about it, and then try the next idea.
    Are you going to take your grandmother out on the first trial? Please don't.
    Your choices should not hurt her.

    There have been lots of persons who will not accept conformist experience.
    But they never put their money where their mouth is.
    They never come back with a report on how it worked.
    Actually, maybe 1 out of 100.

    Where do you think conformist's learn to do anything? From trial and error.

    So go and error.
     
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