Laser Foiler!

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Doug Lord, Aug 4, 2013.

  1. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

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  2. Doug Lord
    Joined: May 2009
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Foiling Laser

    From SA/ Chris with PSA:

    "I had it up with my 96kgs(211lb) in 10 to 12knts yesterday morning, I am sure with more practice you could get it going a little earlier, if lighter in weight for sure you can, later afternoon session was in 15 to 18 and I was smoking for a Laser....we need to do speed tests, not done that yet, my guess yesterday was close to 20knts.."
     
  3. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  4. Skyak
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    Skyak Senior Member

    With the wand off the board a retrofit might be possible. But the dagger board appears to be further back than a standard laser.
     
  5. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    Informative post from the SA thread by Phil S:

    Posted Today, 03:46 AM

    I may be able to answer some of the above questions. I know both the gurus involved and that they have been working on this project. I have not seen any of the kit but spoke to one of these people a few days ago. This waht I understand from that conversation.

    The Laser does not need any modification, not even any additional screw holes. There is an insert which is bolted through the centreboard case, into which the foil strut is inserted and which has the necessary fittings to retain the foil in place and control the angle of attack. The rudder is installed into a standard Laser rudder box. They do not rely on the Laser bent tab to retain the rudder but a snail pin through a hole as is std Laser practice at least in Aust.

    It is possible to insert the foil only from the bottom but it can be slid up so that the boat can be floated in shallow water. So far they have launched the Laser, walked to shallow water, rolled the boat over to insert the foil, then sailed out to deeper water before lowering the foil and rudder to foiling depth. Both the horizontals rotate on the T joint, the wand controlling the main foil angle, but somehow the rudder foil is free to rotate until the rudder is fully down. WardI has used this main foil system on his Moth for some years.

    They are very pleased with the downwind performance so far but know that upwind will be more of a challenge and are working on techniques to achieve upwind foiling. They have some experienced foiling people planning a to test ride and provide input.

    This is a serious effort, they have had tooling made and will shortly be doing some serious marketting. It may not be for everyone but with so many Lasers in existance only a small percentage of owners is still a viable market.


    Phil S
    Moth AUS 3905
     
  6. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

  7. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    From SA-rather expensive foils:

    Posted Today, 07:34 PM

    Just got this from PSA. More info to follow as I get it.

    They are $5800 inc GST Rec Retail in oz.
     
  8. Manie B
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    Manie B Senior Member

  9. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    =======
    You're welcome! Here is a good article about the development of the foil system" http://www.sail-world.com/USA/Now-more-news-on-the-foiling-Laser/113035
    Great to see that Ian Ward is involved-a pioneer in the Moth Class(along with John Ilett) and a major foiling pioneer of our time!
     
  10. brianb00
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    brianb00 Junior Member

    Just Awesome Laser

    The speeds are stunning, need to go look for an old laser before the price goes up....
     
  11. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    More info:-Definitely a Peoples Foiler wanabe-wonder if it will make it?

    To make foiling simple, practical and fun in a Laser, we needed to address the many limitations of today’s foiling dinghies. We have not just copied what has been used before, but have developed a completely new foiling system with flapless foils and integral wand which utilizes many unique design features. These features enable easy launching in shallow water, safe efficient and fast foiling, along with good displacement sailing performance in light winds.

    http://www.lasersailing.com.au/index.cfm?eid=1123&ntid=1361
     
  12. SteveMellet
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    SteveMellet Senior Member

    Doug, I'm rather lost on the purpose of this idea. I know it proves that you can get anything to foil if that's the intent. Perhaps this will be marketable to existing Laser owners, but not at that cost. Obviously those who developed it want a return on investment, I'm not questioning their pricing, but the cost is prohibitive. Perhaps the huge number of Lasers sold led them to choose that boat as their platform, other than that it makes little sense, as it's heavy, and has a poorly developed low-tech rig.
    If the only purpose is to foil downwind for the sensation of flying, then that's what it is. If it's to make a Laser faster than it is, why ? It will just confuse the handicappers. If you want a faster dinghy than a Laser, why not just buy one, at a lower cost ?
    If the purpose is to own a dinghy capable of 20knots downwind, there are many which fit the bill, in various countries, in South Africa we have the Sonnet which is a 2-man V-shaped Scow-like dinghy that can plane offwind at pretty much close to 20knots, and can plane upwind at 10knots. If you add the cost of the foil package to the cost of a decent used Laser, you could easily buy a new Sonnet, and share the ride. Here's a video of the Sonnet doing pretty much full speed in open sea conditions, I know it's not foiling, but fast is what it is..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1lncqNkn5Q
     
  13. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    Steve, as best I can tell the point is to foil! Thats a huge amount of fun in and of itself.
    As to cost: if you bought this new package and a new Laser you might have 12 grand in it. For that money you can get a used Moth that is significantly harder to sail and faster. Its also harder to get on and off since you have to wade out til chest deep water to launch it. And it's fragile.
    I would expect, based on who's involved, that the Laser will be robust and from their own words you just have to wade out to knee deep water with the partially retracted foil and the unique kick up rudder where the foil neutralises as the rudder comes up.
    On the whole the Laser cost is not that high for someone who really wants to foil and the likelyhood of the price coming down is great. The boat is more stable than a Moth, by a long shot, off the foils, is easily beach launchable and will likely foil upwind. But even just foiling downwind would be an experience worth having.
    It is, without a doubt , the least expensive way to own a foiling sailboat at this time in history- I hope they have tremendous success!
     
  14. El_Guero

    El_Guero Previous Member

    It is NOT a people's foil.

    Too difficult to control, you have to be in excellent physical shape.

    I does not foil well.

    Why is it the dirty, bad, mean, and no good Ruskiis perfected foils 40-50 years ago, and western designers are still using 70 year old ideas?

    Makes me wonder who were the really bad guys during, and after the cold war. Not that recent history reads like pages out of 1984 .... but it does.
     

  15. Doug Lord
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    Doug Lord Flight Ready

    Laser Foiler

    ===================
    Where do you get that? I know the guy that developed this kit and he says exactly the opposite that you do. Wana guess who I believe?
    This foil system is quite an advanced system as were the first bi-foiler sailboats-the Moths in the late 90's. One of those two boats was the first I have ever seen that used a bow wand for altitude control.
    Seriously, if you have any real info I'd like to here it.
     
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