Larger Steel version of PARADOX

Discussion in 'Metal Boat Building' started by ImaginaryNumber, Oct 6, 2015.

  1. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    I like Matt Layden's sharpie PARADOX. But at 13'-10" it is pretty small. If one were to double its length, say, 30'+/-, could it be made of steel (or aluminum)? Or maybe the hull out of steel, with the deck and cabin of plywood/timber? Does anyone know of existing plans for a similar steel sharpie?

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    http://www.microcruising.com/plans1.htm
     
  2. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    That's a pretty big scale up.

    only boat I can think of but not a sharpie but "similar" is a double chine Hartly "Silver Image" ..... you will enjoy the space...
    http://www.hartley-boats.com/30.html

    Jeff.
     
  3. LP
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    LP Flying Boatman

  4. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Jeff, you're right, scaling PARADOX by over 100% and constructing with different materials can't really be called scaling. It's a new design, though perhaps inspired by the original design.

    Thanks for the Hartley link. The centerboard version comes closest to what I'm looking for -- which includes the ability to dry out upright. Though I wonder how stable it is balanced on such a small portion of the hull?

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  5. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Paradoxy indeed! I've communicated some with Chris Morejohn, and as far as I know none of his Hogfish series have been made other than in plywood. Can any of the experienced steel boat builders tell me if a plywood sharpie design can be adapted to steel?
     
  6. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    Tom Colvin had a pile of steel sharpie designs over 30'. Since he died some months back I've no idea what ongoing plans availability is, though.

    PDW
     
  7. waikikin
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    waikikin Senior Member

    I think the centerboard version would be fine on the sand or mud, there's only a little v/close to flat in the bottom panels amidships & there's also a 8 or 12 inch wide(maybe six- long time) flat section down the middle in 3/8 or 1/2 inch, my Dad built one with the bilge keels and she was a little nosy on the slip- always tied the stern down to the cradle when she went up, the fin keeler would be similar. Pretty sure the CB version is all internal ballast so the bilge area would be full to the sole I'd imagine. A very roomy "little" boat with the raised deck and wide-ish stern, more like a 34-35' with the lazarette sawn off.

    Jeff.
     
  8. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    Alas, Colvin's web site is defunct. http://www.thomasecolvin.com/

    But The Wayback Machine has archived his site here.

    Thomas talks about his views of sharpies here. Among other things he says:

    Because of their shoal draft, there is only about 4’ of headroom in a 32-footer, and it is difficult to achieve full headroom in lengths under 50’.

    I wonder why he thinks sharpies are so sensitive to cabin height? At ~14' long, PARADOX has 3' of headroom. Scale that to a 32' long boat and you would have nearly 7' of headroom.

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    And Phil Bolger's AS-29 has about 5-1/2' of headroom in the central cabin.

    So does Colvin know something that Bolger and Layden don't, or do Bolger and Layden know something that Colvin missed? Or is it me who's missing something...:rolleyes:

    Here's Colvin's take on what material can be used for different sized sharpies:

    My wooden sharpies go up to 55’ in length. Aluminum sharpies are usually of the double-ended type from 30’ to 48’ on deck. The steel sharpies are from 32’ to 78’ on deck. Up to about 40’ in length, I build the sharpies upside down; for the larger sharpies, building right side up is easier.
     
  9. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    At the bottom of post #1 here some larger versions of Paradox, max 7 m (23') in plywood there, no plans available it says . . :(
     
  10. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    So others are looking at a larger PARADOX too. :) How big must one go before you can build in steel?

    Angélique, are there shoal-draft steel sharpies from the Netherlands region?
     
  11. pdwiley
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    pdwiley Senior Member

    I don't know who knows what and unless you knew they were talking about boats operating in the same area, the underlying assumptions might be wildly different, leading to different design outcomes.

    I do have a small book on Colvin's common designs with notes etc but what's on the web site was a pretty direct crib from this, so I'm not sure if it's worth posting any pages. I can if you want, though.

    PDW
     
  12. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I think the main difference between the Colvin sharpies and the Bolger and Layden and Morejohn on sharpies inspired designs is that Colvin remains with low freeboard like the working sharpies, where low freeboard was a necessity for manually hauling nets over the edge of the board. Of course this difference has many consequences of all kind.
     
  13. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    The first below looks to me like a Matt Layden design older than the Paradox as it has a centerboard and no chine runners.

    The one below looks also like a Matt Layden design to me and has a bow board + small chine runners.

     
  14. Angélique
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    Angélique aka Angel (only by name)

    I'm out of time for now, but Google ‘‘ Lunstroo Skoit ’’, it's not a sharpie, but it is a steel shallow draft centerboard Schooner in 30' en 33' length.

    The Jonathan is a 30' Skoit and is built #1, her designer Henk Lunstroo died in 2011.
     

  15. ImaginaryNumber
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    ImaginaryNumber Imaginary Member

    One of the micro cruisers that Matt Layden built before PARADOX was 15-foot LITTLE CRUISER. One of its experimental features was a bow centerboard -- the rationale being to get the centerboard trunk out of the living space. Another experiment was a deck-mounted free-standing mast. A small tripod at the base stabilized it, and permitted the mast to be lowered easily.

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    Matt sold LITTLE CRUISER to Dave and Mindy Bolduc, who successfully sailed it for many years in North Carolina, Florida and the Bahamas -- so bow centerboards do work. But as far as I know Matt never used a bow centerboard in any subsequent designs, instead relying on boat shape, large rudder, and chine runners to provide lateral resistance. But I'm curious if anyone else has successfully used a bow centerboard? Centerboard (or daggerboard) cases can screw up the accommodations.

    Thanks for the Skoit information. A very nice design, but it doesn't have the flat bottom and single chine that I'm looking for.
     
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