Large sharpie for the Adriatic

Discussion in 'Sailboats' started by Igor, Jul 1, 2022.

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  1. Igor
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    Igor Junior Member

    I live 3km away from Tucepi. Bura is usually forecasted days before it hits so it is almost always possible to prepare, or at least take shelter on time.
    Local thunderstorms are different thing, they can hit almost any day in July and August, most of the time between noon and 16pm and they blow by quickly. The most important part is not to be close to the lee shore when the wind before the cumulonimbus cloud blows. Got caught couple of times, both on sailboat and stand up paddleboard. My biggest fear was lightning strike.

    I dont think Glen L's Fancyfree can compare to Birvidic.
    Birvidic will do horizon job on Fancyfree in all conditions, it is like comparing 69' Mustang with new Porsche Carrera turbo on track. you can probably build a small fleet of Fancy free's for price of Birvidic too.
     
  2. rnlock
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    rnlock Senior Member

    I was going to say Yorkshire Cobles, since they are so deep and fine in the bow, but most don't seem to have full length keels. I did find this model:

    Clinker Built Coble – Works – eMuseum https://emuseum.aberdeencity.gov.uk/objects/13589/clinker-built-coble

    I think this is a bit more typical:
    https://i0.wp.com/lodestarbooks.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Cobles-3.png?ssl=1

    I assume, since they're traditional, that they must not be TOO bad, but I wonder what they are like in a following sea.

    This doesn't contradict what you're saying about the Stevenson fakes.

    I wonder if there was a British Chapelle?

    ---------------
    Igor,
    I seriously doubt an Egret or most other sharpies are like a Porsche Carrera, and I'm guessing the Fancy Free is a lot more like a '69 Falcon than a '69 Mustang*. Hopefully any of the boats would have more legroom for the 3rd and 4th person aboard than the cars had. ;-) I'm guessing the metaphorical car for most sharpies would be somewhere in between.

    *Unless there was some OTHER car with that name?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
  3. Milehog
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    Milehog Clever Quip

  4. sharpii2
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    sharpii2 Senior Member

    In some conditions, I'd prefer to be on the FANCY FREE.

    I went ahead and looked up this Bervidic design. I noticed its low sides compared to its beam and its swing keel and tall rig.

    Clearly, for its high AVS, the design counts on this swing keel being all the way down and locked in in place. Otherwise, in a knock down, its AVS will be considerably less. And once exceeded, the boat will turtle and stay that way.

    It also appears that this design counts on crew weight for fore and aft trim and a healthy portion of its initial stability.

    How well does it single hand?

    It is clearly designed for high performance and is likely a very good design for this purpose.
    Fancy Free likely has a lower AVS, but does not depend on the center board being down to get it.

    It too will turtle, if its AVS is exceeded. This will happen sooner than on the Bervidic, if the swing keel (on the Bervidic) is locked down, but later than it, if it's swing keel is not.

    Fancy Free is probably a better design for casual sailing with a one or two person crew.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
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  5. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    I wonder: weight minus ballast: FF=846kg - B=550kg
    FF sure looks very nice, possibly ideal for our "Lake Neusiedl" (or any extremely shallow lake, estuary,...) if performance is absolutely no object. Do I see this correctly: the rudder does not have a lifting blade? (& looking at the body plan I cannot help but thinking, that hulldesign has progressed somewhat from the shapes shown...)
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2022
  6. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    we definitely felt more "relaxed" on our boats with AVS >90° than on our Wharram (AVS75°?)
     
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  7. Igor
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    Igor Junior Member

    You got it wrong, the Birvidic is comparable to modern German sports car, 100 year old sharpie design can be fast if long and narrow enough but low AVS. Same like old Mustang, lot of power, not much control.
     
  8. Igor
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    Igor Junior Member

    Birvidic has a simple and clever solution to keep the swing keel down, it is lashed to the compression post
    .
    Designs like Birvidic promise high AVS and knock-down recovery only if the swing keel is where it belongs, deep down. I believe it folds just for trailering and beaching.
     
  9. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    interesting idea! Maybe "flat-panel" method, laminatepanels together at chines,...Derek Kelsall designed cruising catamarans for this building method.
     
  10. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    no need to fasten the strips to the frames/molds. I built a stripper-canoe without any fasteners whatsoever, staples, screws or otherwise (for aesthetic reasons). It is only a little slower than when using staples, as one can glue on only one strip at the time, then has to wait for the glue to set. "Bead & cove" strips, of course, WRC. If one used staples one could staple through webbing & pull the staples out with the webbing.
    Seemed like an excellent building method for round bilge hulls. Light & stiff, easy for the single-handed builder as each strip is, compared to a full-length plywood piece, easily handled.
     
  11. tane
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    tane Senior Member

  12. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Sure you can strip without fasteners, as long as you go slow. The bigger the boat, the longer it takes, most of the boats we discuss here have are at least 2m from keel to gunwhale, that's 40-60 strips each side, so we are talking one to two months just to plank. The same job can be done in one week or less.
    Wide crown staples only work up to a certain thickness, narrow crown staples are very hard to pull, so after approx 12mm you need screws, or double headed nails.
    Just to be clear, I'm not saying everyone should strip dry, or over permanent frames, etc. I'm just presenting some less known options to make planking faster. I have nothing against anyone wishing to cut a rolling bevel by hand in each strip, it's their choice and if it makes them happy so be it.
     
  13. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    It certainly will take longer than if the strips are screwed to the frames/molds, but maybe not that much longer (2-3 strips/day/side?). The removing of the temporary screws a hassle? Sure as hell I would not want to remove them with the same tool I put >10.000 screws into my cat in the 70ies upload_2022-9-7_7-37-53.jpeg ( there were no slow-speed power drills with adjustable torque affordable for a minimum budget builder like me. The callous on my right palm was awesome - after the first "soreness" had passed) With todays battery powered handdrills with adjustable torque? Not that bad (120 strips x 12frames=1440 screws x 5sec=2h to remove.
    "Rolling bevel": what ever for would someone want a rolling bevel on the strips? Bead & cove, why not?
    Using slightly trapezoidal strips & filling the V-shaped gaps with epoxi seems a faster system though. Would need well aligned strips, maybe using dowels like in the Gougeon book.
     
  14. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member


  15. tane
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    tane Senior Member

    of course I knew about "the olde way" of beveling, I have a friend who is a traditional boatbuilder (his preferred jobs are restaurations of carvel planked boats, that are seemingly beyond redemption), but that one wants to use it on stripplanked/glass/epoxi construction is new to me. Bead & cove sure wastes a goodly amount of wood, but for 140$...I suppose on really tight curves the bevelling is probably leading to better results, but then building time will explode...
    Ingenious tool though! (Funnily enough: in the vid he laboriously bevels the planks for best result - but all those holes from the staples do not matter!)
    GREAT thread!
     
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