Large list time before capsizing

Discussion in 'Stability' started by naserrishehri, Sep 23, 2024.

  1. naserrishehri
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    naserrishehri Senior Member

    At first the ship was upright then they loaded the last container on top and saw the ship list to an angle around 10 deg. And remained in that angle for 30 minutes. then containers shifted and water filled the hold and the ship capsized.
    I want to know if angle 10 deg. Is angle of loll?
     
  2. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I'm sorry but I don't know how to interpret your question.
     
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  3. naserrishehri
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    naserrishehri Senior Member

    Thanks for your attention.
    My question is about that ship in the video. I explained how it was capsized.before capsizing, the ship remained in 10 deg. List untill containers shifted .i believe the 10deg. List Angle is angle of loll.
    Am i right?
     
  4. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    I'm sorry but I can't figure out what you mean by "list angle" or "angle olf loll" or what the difference is between them (for me both terms mean the same thing).
    I think the ship, probably due to an asymmetrical distribution of the load, acquired an initial list of 10º. The ship was listed but stable at 10º. However, from there, at some point, one or more containers (due to the ship's inclination) moved a little more, the heeling moment increased, perhaps a gust of wind helped, and water entered the holds which led to the ship sinking.
     
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  5. Rumars
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    Rumars Senior Member

    Loll is a permanent heeling when at rest and is considered an inbuilt condition, caused either by hull assymetry or wrong weight distribution. It manifests at first launch and is considered exceptionally rare today and a major flaw.
    The difference between loll and list (heeling caused by wrong cargo placement or flooding) is simple, one is a function of the initial hull design/construction and the other an operation error.
    In practice in both cases the vessel now has two different stability curves, one greater then the other.
     
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  6. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

  7. Don92
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    Don92 Principal Naval Architect

    So it depends entirely on the heeling moment and not the restoration moment?
     
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  8. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    @Don92, what I mean is that a given hull, under a given loading condition, will heel more or less rapidly depending on the magnitude of the heeling moment. That moment depends only on the magnitude of the applied force and the distance of that force from the axis of rotation. It does not depend, therefore, on the GZ or DN curves. These curves only indicate the righting lever and the energy required to heel the ship a certain angle.
     
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  9. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    It is very hard to state with any degree of certainty, exactly the reason for the situation.
    Simply because we do not know the initial condition of the vessel, prior to the situation, nor do we know what the stability characteristics of the vessel of the vessel are, nor do we know how it was or is being loaded, and any other factor(s) that may influence this situation.

    But we may speculate.

    Indeed, this is one observation, as is the fact it "appears" that the bow is pushing against the wharf too.
    upload_2024-9-28_9-4-59.png

    That is incorrect, look at the image, the tangent in the intial condition is negative, classic condition :
    upload_2024-9-28_9-7-18.png

    Nailed it.
    Lol is a permanent characteristic of the hull design in the condition it is at - whatever it maybe - list is the result of movement of weights onboard, or the addition of weights that create an asymmetrical loading condition.

    More data is need to state categorically why it occur ed - which we do not have.
    Speculation is all we can do...but makes for a fun mind experiment. :p
     
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  10. naserrishehri
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    naserrishehri Senior Member

    Loads position ( containers) on ship were not so unsymmetric to make list 10 deg. I guess
    thanks.
    so can we say 10 deg. list happened because of loading containers unsymmetrical and low GM or we need more data information ?
     
  11. Ad Hoc
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    Ad Hoc Naval Architect

    Without more data/info, we can't say much about it at all...just speculation.
     
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  12. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    When the ship is in stable equilibrium in its natural upright position (list equal to zero radians, angle of loll) the initial GMt coincides with the value of the tangent to the GZ curve at the origin of the curve.
    When the ship's stable equilibrium position (angle of loll) occurs for a positive list (greater than zero radians), the above statement is no longer correct.
    Thank you for your always interesting lessons in naval architecture.
     
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  13. Lopolito
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    Lopolito Junior Member

    English is not my native language and I assume I explain myself terribly. In the case of the curve I showed, I am only pointing that we have a negative initial GM, so, we are going to suffer lolling. Not talking about negative GM or that we are going to capsize. Thanks.
     
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  14. TANSL
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    TANSL Senior Member

    @Lopolito your explanation is clear. And yes, I understand you perfectly, because I also have difficulties expressing myself in English. Many times English speakers understand that I have said things that I did not intend to say.
     
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  15. naserrishehri
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    naserrishehri Senior Member

    Thanks lopolito
    After stability analysis , i found that cargo(containers) shift caused 11 deg. List and sea water float to cargo holds and capsized the ship.
     
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