lamination schedule sources

Discussion in 'Fiberglass and Composite Boat Building' started by willfish4fuud, Sep 10, 2006.

  1. willfish4fuud
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    Location: USA

    willfish4fuud New Member

    I would appreciate any leads on naval architects or other qualified professionals who can assist me with determining lamination schedule for a 15' fishing boat. Looking for someone preferrably in the southeast who has experience with small boats. I would love to have it infused or vaccum bagged but fear this will increase cost too much. So, I will probably be looking at a foam cored glass hand lay-up. I designed it and then built the prototype glass over wood and have run it for a year. I have several friends who want one and I have access to someone to pop the mold as well as do hand lay-up.
    Thanx
     
  2. marshmat
    Joined: Apr 2005
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    Location: Ontario

    marshmat Senior Member

    Hi willfish, welcome aboard!
    Sounds like you're well on track already. Getting together with some friends and building a few boats can be a lot of fun.
    The cost of vac bagging isn't in the supplies, which will only be a few hundred bucks for a 15-footer. It's in the labour time. If you're doing it yourself, it won't be much more expensive, it just takes a bit of practice and a lot more patience. If you're coring the hull, and want it to turn out well, seriously consider bagging. If you don't want to bag, seriously consider doing a solid laminate.
    I can't help you much with the laminate schedule, as most of my composites work is with prepreg carbons. But I'm sure someone will recommend either a possible laminate, or a book with the appropriate guidelines.
     
  3. willfish4fuud
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    willfish4fuud New Member

    thanks Matt. Im pretty handy and have taught myself things before but must admit to being at a loss when it comes to bagging. would love to learn it and know i would love the result. and just to be clear, im not looking for free help though that would be great. i intend to find a professional to review my design and determine the proper laminate. paying some money to have it right is the only way to go. if you dont mind sparing a moment for an idiot, what do you mean by solid laminate?
     
  4. willfish4fuud
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    willfish4fuud New Member

    i assumed you meant without a core...seems weaker or heavier to get the same strength...am i lost on this?
     
  5. MarshallT
    Joined: Sep 2006
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    MarshallT Junior Member

    there is some good information in the book "The Elements of Boat Strength" by Dave Gerr. There should be enough information in there to calculate the laminate schedule you will need.
    If you are going to use vacuum infusion you will get a slightly thinner laminate than you would get by hand lay-up. This does not affect the strength however it will reduce the stiffness. You may want to slightly increase the core thickness if you think stiffness is an issue. The difference between a core laminate and a solid laminate (for the same fibre content) is in stiffness not in strength. With a solid laminate you will need to add more glass to get the stiffness you will need for the boat hull. If you are using hand lay-up you need to be careful to ensure there is good bonding between the core and the laminate layers. Since some of the resin will get absorbed into the core you need to prewet the core and ensure there is enough (but not too much) resin otherwise you will get delaminations.
    If you are going to infuse I suggest making test panels using either a sheet a melamine or a glass plate as your mold. That way you can test the materials you want to use to see how they work for infusion and you can also determine the stiffness and strength of the panel. Infusion does take some practice so the test panels would give you a chance to make mistakes early on with no real loss $$$
     
  6. willfish4fuud
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    willfish4fuud New Member

    thanks for the reply Marshall...read the book and unfortunately, as the boat size gets smaller, the parameters of schedule in the book pretty much blur. as i said, my boat is only 15' long...i appreciate your explanation on the other issues further clarifying what I thought I knew. I am really just looking for a referral to the right person that has been used or is known by someone here. Maybe Im over simplifying it but I hope to have a knowlegeable marine design pro tell me; "for your design, to get the weight and strength you want, you need to use______ layers of _______ fabric and a _______ inch core of ________ foam". thanks for your response.
     

  7. Toot
    Joined: Jul 2006
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    Toot Senior Member

    My suspiscion is that you can ask ten pros and get twelve answers. ;)

    Truthfully, on a boat this small, you will probably have a more satisfactory structure if you make your own decisions. Here's why...

    One designer will be very concerned about puncture resistance on a fishing boat, given that you will be spending time in shallow water. Another will assume it's just a rowing vessel so minimal puncture resistance is really necessary. Another will assume you need a puncture resistant floor for "tossing" stuff into the boat. Another will assume you are a fairly gentle person. Another will assume you want some degree of emergency floatation while yet another will think, "What kind of idiot is going to sink an inland fishing vessel on a pond?" And so on...

    The thing is, I daresay that I suspect the range of answers you get from a group of pros on this matter is going to have a difference of at least 3x, from strongest to weakest, thinnest to thickest. None of their answers will be wrong. And, perhaps, none of them will be exactly right for you.

    I say estimate it for yourself, based upon your needs, and then add an extra layer or two just to be on the safe side.
     
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